The US Private Healthcare System fails again

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Danzig

actually, it's not that expensive dell. ever get a quote on it? for my son, 25 and a smoker, it's about $20 a week thru bc/bc-NOT group coverage mind you.
family of five the other day-about $300/month. and it's also contingent on deductibles and the like. higher deductibles, lower premiums.
truth is most people CAN afford it;most people choose not to. they're young and healthy and don't see a need, not thinking about 'what if?'. the expense comes in when you're overweight, smoker, bad health, etc, etc. you have to pay more-so states have programs in place for high risk or high cost. here in arkansas, you get one decline from one carrier and you can get coverage thru the states program called 'chip'.
but, so many people don't get it. then when they need it, they wish they had it. you know, just like car insurance, homeowners, life insurance. same thing. then they complain because the bills are so high. yes, yes they are.

ask for a hypthetical quote with pre-existing leukemia or self inflicted diabetes

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

We don't have the best-rated healthcare in the world. We are rated [b]37th in quality.

So when the King of Saudi Arabia flew his crew to America for care it was because 37 was his lucky number? Don't be such a fool.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

ask for a hypthetical quote with pre-existing leukemia or self inflicted diabetes

obviously any pre-existing conditions will affect rates. but if people bought insurance, they would be covered should a health issue arise. after they get ill, then they cry about the system. it's called closing the barn door after the horses all escaped.

[Clip-Clop]

How exactly did the healthcare system fail?
Your follow up arguments say that it did not fail.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Danzig

obviously any pre-existing conditions will affect rates. but if people bought insurance, they would be covered should a health issue arise. after they get ill, then they cry about the system. it's called closing the barn door after the horses all escaped.

Agreed and that's part of the reason why people shouldn't have babies if they can't afford them.

The problem is in the present there are a whole bunch of folks with diseases and no insurance who will be required to have insurance under Obamacare. Because of astronomical premiums they won't be able to afford it hence that responsibility will fall on others who are already struggling in there own lives.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

So when the King of Saudi Arabia flew his crew to America for care it was because 37 was his lucky number? Don't be such a fool.

First, lose the insult

Second: the King of Saudi Arabia doesn't have much to do with ranking the healthcare system for 300 million people. Our archaic private healthcare system is the most expensive in the world, and one of the least effective.

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

Overall rank: 37th , behind every other first world country
Preventable deaths: 14th
Health-life expectancy: 24th

Total health expenditures as %GDP: 2nd, (behind the Marshall Islands) most expensive first world healthcare in world

Health performance rank of 8 factors (system performance, cost, % you pay into system, insurance, etc): 72 nd

The problem is in the present there are a whole bunch of folks with diseases and no insurance who will be required to have insurance under Obamacare. Because of astronomical premiums they won't be able to afford it hence that responsibility will fall on others who are already struggling in there own lives.

That's why starting next year there will be non-profits able to enter the insurance exchanges to compete with the for-profit insurance companies, undercutting them, lowering insurance costs for everyone, and making it affordable.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Riot

First, lose the insult

Second: the King of Saudi Arabia doesn't have much to do with ranking the healthcare system for 300 million people. Our archaic private healthcare system is the most expensive in the world, and one of the least effective.

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

Overall rank: 37th , behind every other first world country
Preventable deaths: 14th
Health-life expectancy: 24th

Total health expenditures as %GDP: 2nd, (behind the Marshall Islands) most expensive first world healthcare in world

Health performance rank of 8 factors (system performance, cost, % you pay into system, insurance, etc): 72 nd



That's why starting next year there will be non-profits able to enter the insurance exchanges to compete with the for-profit insurance companies, undercutting them, lowering insurance costs for everyone, and making it affordable.

"The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems was last produced in 2000."
Nothing has changed at all in 12 years.
Surely the Greek model is one to be envied and admired now, right? And the Italians, perhaps this has something to do with these countries hanging on by a thread...
The Colombians? Of course.
How did the US healthcare system fail Sarah Burke?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

obviously any pre-existing conditions will affect rates. but if people bought insurance, they would be covered should a health issue arise. after they get ill, then they cry about the system. it's called closing the barn door after the horses all escaped.

Or They are not allowed to purchase insurance due to pre-existing conditions (nobody would sell to them)

Or they could purchase insurance, except it costs an unaffordable hundreds or thousands a month because they have health conditions (and still won't cover everything).

Or, they had insurance, but the company retroactively decided they wouldn't cover a condition included in the contract.

Fifty million Americans are uninsured, and it's not because they are too cheap to purchase insurance and cry about the system.

The 700 thousand medical bankruptcies in this country are mostly from people who have health insurance, but went bankrupt paying for what the insurance wouldn't cover.

We had a broken, unworkable private, for-profit healthcare system, and that has proven to work terribly for everyone but the insurance profit margin.

The ACA has already made it illegal for the insurance company to deny treatment for pre-existing conditions, kick someone off insurance due to lifetime caps, made preventive care more affordable for seniors on Medicare, removed $500 billion in Medicare waste from the system, provided temporary exchanges where the uninsurable can purchase insurance at affordable prices, closed the donut hole for seniors on Medicare and lowered their drug costs, and allowed young adults to remain on insurance policies until they are 26 (rather than having no insurance)

The Republican candidates all say they will repeal the above current law the day they get into office.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

"The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems was last produced in 2000."
Nothing has changed at all in 12 years.

??? No. The sentence you half quoted on the first page says,

"The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems was last produced in 2000, and the WHO no longer produces such a ranking table, because of the complexity of the task."

Thus if you click on and look at all the figures and ranking tables quoted, it shows the new source of the information aggregation, which is current, which is from a multiplicity of health organizations around the world, just not solely from WHO.

How did the US healthcare system fail Sarah Burke?

A thirty-year old falling and sustaining a severe head trauma, resulting in death, shouldn't threaten to bankrupt their family and survivors, causing them to lose their entire financial future: home, savings, retirement, etc.

Healthcare shouldn't be obtainable only for the wealthy. 40% of American homes are within a few paychecks of poverty. We are the only first-world country in the world that still pays private people to provide our health care, but they only make a profit by not providing us health care. That's simply crazy.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Riot

Or They are not allowed to purchase insurance due to pre-existing conditions (nobody would sell to them)

Or they could purchase insurance, except it costs an unaffordable hundreds or thousands a month because they have health conditions (and still won't cover everything).

Or, they had insurance, but the company retroactively decided they wouldn't cover a condition included in the contract.

Fifty million Americans are uninsured, and it's not because they are too cheap to purchase insurance and cry about the system.

The 700 million medical bankruptcies in this country are mostly from people who have health insurance, but went bankrupt paying for what the insurance wouldn't cover.

We had a broken, unworkable private, for-profit healthcare system, and that has proven to work terribly for everyone but the insurance profit margin.

The ACA has already made it illegal for the insurance company to deny treatment for pre-existing conditions, kick someone off insurance due to lifetime caps, made preventive care more affordable for seniors on Medicare, removed $500 billion in Medicare waste from the system, provided temporary exchanges where the uninsurable can purchase insurance at affordable prices, closed the donut hole for seniors on Medicare and lowered their drug costs, and allowed young adults to remain on insurance policies until they are 26 (rather than having no insurance)

The Republican candidates all say they will repeal the above current law the day they get into office.

How many people live here?

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Riot

??? No. The sentence you half quoted on the first page says,

"The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems was last produced in 2000, and the WHO no longer produces such a ranking table, because of the complexity of the task."

Thus if you click on and look at all the figures and ranking tables quoted, it shows the new source of the information aggregation, which is current, which is from a multiplicity of health organizations around the world, just not solely from WHO.



A thirty-year old falling and sustaining a severe head trauma, resulting in death, shouldn't threaten to bankrupt their family and survivors, causing them to lose their entire financial future: home, savings, retirement, etc.

Healthcare shouldn't be obtainable only for the wealthy. 40% of American homes are within a few paychecks of poverty. We are the only first-world country in the world that still pays private people to provide our health care, but they only make a profit by not providing us health care. That's simply crazy.

They won't, they will go back to Canada.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

How many people live here?

Ooops, good point - hundred thousand not million, obviously!

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

They won't, they will go back to Canada.

They still have a $300,000 bill to pay in America, because the American healthcare system doesn't allow everyone - including elite athletes competing in dangerous sports - to be insurable here, let alone be able to afford huge copays for financial disasters.

Did you read the story? The family cannot afford to pay the bill. They were taking donations, so they wouldn't lose their house, future, savings, etc. Responsible people shouldn't suffer that.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

First, lose the insult

Second: the King of Saudi Arabia doesn't have much to do with ranking the healthcare system for 300 million people. Our archaic private healthcare system is the most expensive in the world, and one of the least effective.

When you go out for a steak dinner do you rank the meal by the steak you're eating or do you consider what 300 million other people are eating?

Pure and simple we have the best care money can buy!

Not everyone can afford Mortons but there's always a Denny's nearby

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

When you go out for a steak dinner do you rank the meal by the steak you're eating or do you consider what 300 million other people are eating?

Pure and simple we have the best care money can buy!

Not everyone can afford Mortons but there's always a Denny's nearby

Not everyone can afford Denny's. 40% of Americans are living in threat of poverty. We are turning into a very poor country, with a wealthy class, and a poor class - the middle class is virtually gone. Their wages have stagnated for 40 years, while the wealthy have taken a greater percentage of ownership of the money available in the country. We have the most expensive care in the world. But even if you can afford it, you won't get "the best care" as far as neonatal survival rates, life expectancy, preventive death rate, preventive medicine, and access goes. If you have a chronic condition (diabetes, kidney failure, heart trouble for example) you will probably, as your life goes on, lose access to treatment for your conditions as your insurance refuses to pay or lifetime caps are reached, and cannot afford the medication sold by private companies at expensive rates only to those that can afford paying.

That has been modified by the ACA, thank goodness, who has lowered Medicare drug costs markedly, improved preventive care access for the elderly, etc.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Riot

They still have a $300,000 bill to pay in America, because the American healthcare system doesn't allow everyone - including elite athletes competing in dangerous sports - to be insurable here, let alone be able to afford huge copays for financial disasters.

Did you read the story? The family cannot afford to pay the bill. They were taking donations, so they wouldn't lose their house, future, savings, etc. Responsible people shouldn't suffer that.

There is no debtors prison and the hospital cannot sue them for things they do not own in this country. It is admirable that they want to pay the bill, but they are most certainly not going to lose anything in the process. Other than their daughter, who was a wonderful person and amazingly talented athlete that will be sorely missed.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Riot

They still have a $300,000 bill to pay in America, because the American healthcare system doesn't allow everyone - including elite athletes competing in dangerous sports - to be insurable here, let alone be able to afford huge copays for financial disasters.

Did you read the story? The family cannot afford to pay the bill. They were taking donations, so they wouldn't lose their house, future, savings, etc. Responsible people shouldn't suffer that.

The story is gone.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

There is no debtors prison and the hospital cannot sue them for things they do not own in this country.

So the hospital cannot put a lien on their house and accounts as they do for Americans, simply because they live in another country? But that means the hospital is still unpaid, thus we Americans will have to pay for her bill in our hospital costs.

Wouldn't it be better that she had been able to be insurable in the US? (purchase of temporary travelers insurance)

Other than their daughter, who was a wonderful person and amazingly talented athlete that will be sorely missed.

Yes, that is so sad, to lose such a wonderful young person.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Wouldn't it be better that she had been able to be insurable in the US? (purchase of temporary travelers insurance).

She had the ability, she just didn't do it.

Too bad her Universal Canadian policy didn't cover her. But I guess to the canadian gov the universe in universal stops at the border.

Now Riot, how will the millions of illegals living here be handled under Obamacare. Will they:

1) Be required and able to purchase health insurance
2) Be subsidized for a policy if unable to pay
3) Be treated via ER as they are now
4) Be refused treatment

And while we're at it. Will Americans who refuse to abide by the requirement to have insurance

1) Still be treated at the ER w/o insurance
2) Be refused treatment

Because as you have stated ad nauseum there is no fine or threat of jail for not abiding so I tend to think a lot of uninsured people will simply ingnore the 'requirement'

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Agreed and that's part of the reason why people shouldn't have babies if they can't afford them.

The problem is in the present there are a whole bunch of folks with diseases and no insurance who will be required to have insurance under Obamacare. Because of astronomical premiums they won't be able to afford it hence that responsibility will fall on others who are already struggling in there own lives.

but that's what i've said already. here in arkansas they have CHIP. it's a state program to provide insurance if your premiums are too high, or you get denied. i have no doubt that other states have the same.

the issue isn't that many people can't afford, for many it's not a priority. then when something happens, they have to pay. you can pay premiums now, or a big bill later. either way, you're going to pay.
the issue for many is that they don't want to get insurance, but don't want a bill either. i find that argument laughable.


our medical industry as a whole needs serious attention. obamacare isn't a solution.