2/26 (GP): Fountain of Youth S., Mac Diamida S. (G2's)

[Kasept]

At first glance, it looks like Union Rags finished up in :30.1..

[El Padrino]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye6ux...layer_embedded

[citycat]

Originally Posted by Kasept

I like him too. Had plenty of early trouble to recover from. Was eager inside & with the blinks. Anxious to hear what Wilkes says.

He was actually my pick for the race but when he got pinched on the first turn its usually over with this caliber of horses. I thoght he recovered nicely. Do you think a Flower Alley can get the Derby distance?

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Ok so I have been a Union Rags hater, I lost money trying to beat him today and I just have not really believed in him. All I can say is WOW. Push button around the turn with that burst. If he moves forward off this Im not sure whos beating him.

Indicative of how times have change:

Union Rags has nearly achieved world-beater status for his romp in the Fountain Of Youth today.

Twenty years ago, 2yo champion Fly So Free was being downgraded for his performance in the same race, despite winning the Fountain Of Youth by 6 lengths. Never mind, he had also easily won the Hutcheson in his 3yo debut previously. In the FOY, Jose Santos had to resort to using the whip aggressively to get the horse in gear, and this was taken as a sign of decline.

Ironically, Fly So Free subsequently won the Florida Derby...and his reputation suffered even more. Winning in a paltry 1:50+ for the 9f, the naysayers pointed to the final time as further proof that he wasn't winning the Kentucky Derby. As ridiculous as that sounds for a champion colt that had won every major stakes at Gulfstream, they were justified in their conviction (Fly So Free ran a modest 5th in the Derby at over 3-1).

It was a tougher crowd back then, probably because there were better horses running...and lots of them.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by citycat

He was actually my pick for the race but when he got pinched on the first turn its usually over with this caliber of horses. I thoght he recovered nicely. Do you think a Flower Alley can get the Derby distance?

First, my own leanings say sires deliver speed, dams stamina. But Flower Alley himself won a Travers, so 10f was within his own grasp. Neck 'n Neck is out of Mr. Miles' own homebred Storm Boot mare Bootery who was a $100k earning miler that Wilkes trained. Her dam was by Runaway Groom and further back the female family is loaded with stamina influences including Broad Brush, Roberto and Sea Bird. If Flower Alley has any disposition to get classic distance route-goers, this family should have what he needs to bring it out.

[Kasept]

Union Rags 95

Arm Force 79
Politicallycorrect 83

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Cardus

The game was so much different then -- as you know -- that Fly So Free ran in the Colin Stakes at 9F on Belmont Stakes Day. (He won, and might have rolled, if memory serves.)

It was actually the 7f Riva Ridge, but he did win easily. However, he was never consistent afterwards, either sprinting or routing. He flopped in the Dwyer in his next start.

Hansel started the year getting crushed in the FOY (5th by 11) and the Florida Derby (3rd by 5). Imagine such performances nowadays...he'd be written off completely.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Who, or what, is the source of your leanings?

i've read that thought for years, i thought it was just something that had been a part of breeding beliefs for some time?

speed on top, stamina on the bottom.

[Travis Stone]

I read a few times where it it's supposed to be distance/surface on top, and quality/class on bottom.

[Calzone Lord]

There's a whole lot of nonsense associated with pedigree -- and it has been exactly that way in American racing for at least 100 years...I know this because I've read several lengthy columns from 'Salvator' and Vosburgh where they would have fun mocking the theorists of the day.

There is big money in breeding horses. There is also big money in yearling sales...and few things to go on outside of looks, confirmation, and pedigree.

When analyzing pedigree - there are three and a half things I study.

The Sire's offspring, the Dam's racing record, the dam's produce and racing record of her produce, and the up-close tail female family (in that order)

Those are the angles to study and look for preferences and clues.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

I read a few times where it it's supposed to be distance/surface on top, and quality/class on bottom.

All of this stuff about males giving some traits and females others seems pretty ridiculous to me.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

All of this stuff about males giving some traits and females others seems pretty ridiculous to me.

Remember this though..

Behind every crazy man is a mother.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Who, or what, is the source of your leanings?

The usual breeding practice/pedigree sources as Doug mentions like Hervey ("Salvator"), W.H.P. Robertson, Col. Wall, Shipman and Hatton in the American Racing Manuals, more recent writings like Ed Bowen's Matriarchs/Dynasties/Legacies, Edwin Anthony's new The American Thoroughbred, etc..

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

All of this stuff about males giving some traits and females others seems pretty ridiculous to me.

No doubt.

[VOL JACK]

I have always thought the top sires like Storm Cat and Smart Strike provide the class, while the dam side provides surface and distance preference.

I remember JCGC day at Belmont in 2007.
Smart Strike's off spring won the 3 biggest races that day.

Vosbugh 6f on dirt: Fabulous Strike (Lost Code mare)

Joe Hirsch 10f on turf: English Channel (Theatrical mare)

Jockey Club GC 10f on Dirt: Curlin (Deputy Minister mare)

[GenuineRisk]

I believe the thinking now is that terrific horses than can get a distance have larger than average hearts, and that, it's believed, is a genetic trait that is carried on the X chromosome, so male horses can only inherit the larger heart via their mothers. Ergo looking to the dam's side, rather than the sire's for distance indications.

Of course, lots of things go into whether a horse can run a distance, but a large heart is a good advantage to have, and it can only be passed via the X chromosome.

I remember reading somewhere that in female horses, both X chromosomes must carry the gene for the larger heart for the filly to be born with one, so while Lady's Secret likely received the gene from her dad, her mother must also have carried it.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by VOL JACK

I have always thought the top sires like Storm Cat and Smart Strike provide the class, while the dam side provides surface and distance preference.

Not to be a pain in the ass...

But...there are a lot of sires who provide surface and distance preferences to their offspring.

The "class" is provided by the horse itself. You could breed the same sire to the same dam and get one top horse, one useful horse, one ok horse, one cheap and slow horse, and one horse who can't outrun a goat.

However, at all realms of ability...the offspring are likely to have leanings and preferences in regard to surface, distance, and development.

[VOL JACK]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Not to be a pain in the ass...

But...there are a lot of sires who provide surface and distance preferences to their offspring.

The "class" is provided by the horse itself. You could breed the same sire to the same dam and get one top horse, one useful horse, one ok horse, one cheap and slow horse, and one horse who can't outrun a goat.

However, at all realms of ability...the offspring are likely to have leanings and preferences in regard to surface, distance, and development.

The Sire is important for surface, for sure.

I was just providing an example of a versatile Sire that throws high class horses but, because of their Dam side were different types of horses.

[VOL JACK]

The Dam Oatsee would be an example of the dam providing the distance.

She is the dam of Lady Joanne, winner of the 2007 Alabama, who is by a sprinty Sire in Orientate.
She is also the dam of Shackleford, 2011 Preakness winner, who is by another sprinty type sire in Forestry.

[trackrat59]

I got my quality and class from my mother.

R.I.P. Mom. Still love you....lost her back in 1979. She was a big racing fan.