Racing Media

[Merlinsky]

Here's a DRF article with a more in depth discussion of how the sale went down. Hyder Abad purchase. Hyderabad/Hyder Abad (depending on how they felt like spelling it that day) went for $400 as a yearling. That's around $10,000 in today's money. $30,000 would be roughly $775,000 today. Nice pinhook. From the article it sure sounds like the colt put on a show in a workout that made Keene scared enough to take it seriously.

Hyderabad/Hyder Abad apparently fell in the mud in the Futurity and nearly caused Domino to fall as well. Cooper seemed to think his colt would've won had he not fallen and the jockey spoke highly of the colt's effort before the incident. Something tells me it's not just blowing smoke up someone's arse. Overconfidence? Not sure, but I think Cooper believed it. Hyder Abad must not've broken down though because DRF's got at least one son I could find. Who knows who else because he clearly wasn't successful at stud. I can't figure out the breeding of the mare. The colt's name is Sheik, born 1896 out of Musical Gem by Dan Godfrey. Can't seem to find her dam's name.

[golfer]

I wrote this years ago HERE; as long as people continue to bet and the tracks continue to get their cut off the top, they have no incentive to care who wins or loses (sad but true). The only thing that will bring anything but lip service, is if people STOP betting.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by phystech

Try again - happy to have the horse claimed from me. I'm a claiming owner and can't think of one in 15 years I wish didn't get claimed, including this one. That isn't the issue. I made my money and the profit check cashed nicely from the private purchase. Ever done that?

Filly got an 81 Beyer Fri night off a previous non-Ness best of 58 at Parx. Check the split times for her race - she never slowed down under a hand ride. Freak performance for a horse I owned, know, touched, saw radiographs of, etc. Simply wasn't a better horsemen's training effort, better placement, better jock - as an owner and bettor, what happened isn't acceptable or explainable.

But I respect your suggestion that the racing media won't do anything. I completely agree..... guess that's the saddest part of all and the point of my rant.

Yeah, you sure seem like a person pretty happy with the profit they made.

That's the problem with whining threads. You have to make up your mind. are you going to whine, or gloat? Can't do both.

Again, you're preaching to the choir here. You're a bigshot though. Can't you make something happen?

[gamblin4ever]

I'm not defending Ness, but there are some trainers that claim a horse and make changes, getting improved results. I'm not saying he didn't JUICE her, but he took off front wraps, could've changed the diet, changed dist., etc.
This happens when a few trainers claims horses, then makes changes, just as some horses get claimed and run worse than before.

[MaTH716]

You're barking up the wrong tree being mad at the media, really what do you want them to do? You should be mad at the tracks for not being able to prove this guy is cheating. More importantly you should be mad at the sport for a lack of a governing body which is able to enforce real penalties and suspensions.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

You're barking up the wrong tree being mad at the media, really what do you want them to do? You should be mad at the tracks for not being able to prove this guy is cheating. More importantly you should be mad at the sport for a lack of a governing body which is able to enforce real penalties and suspensions.

and a lack of people at said tracks who will ban someone. you have to have your trainer cut a horses' leg off before they deny you stalls.

[Travis Stone]

Testing is usually done at the commission or state level. Tracks don't test horses or really have much to do with specific testing.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Testing is usually done at the commission or state level. Tracks don't test horses or really have much to do with specific testing.

They can deny stalls and/or entry.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

They can deny stalls and/or entry.

yep. and some trainers should have licenses revoked.
did the sport suffer when biancone(for example) wasn't training? why was he allowed to come back? what purpose did that serve? i would say none.

[phystech]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Yeah, you sure seem like a person pretty happy with the profit they made.

That's the problem with whining threads. You have to make up your mind. are you going to whine, or gloat? Can't do both.

Again, you're preaching to the choir here. You're a bigshot though. Can't you make something happen?

Nice mischaracterizations.....

I'll do what I can though but it will have to go to #2 on my list of things to do this week - #1 is to resolve the crisis between Frank Stronach and the MD horsemen....

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

They can deny stalls and/or entry.

Or at least give these guys a hard time and treat them with suspicion instead of treating them like royalty.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Scav

1) I think its a slippery slope when you believe Penn National numbers, its like believing Lone Star #s

Not at all.

Penn National is one of the more straight-forward tracks for speed figure making.

They are very cut and dry all the time at Penn National.

Golden Gate is a track that is brutal for figure making -- the track repeatedly changes speed throughout the day. It's a first class pain in the ass and you're on your toes and guessing because of the small fields, the way the main track changes speed all the time, and the way they card a mix of turf and syn, not to mention sometimes they'll run two different baby races with all FTS.

Now, from GG, they go to PLN. A dirt surface where the vast majority of horses are exiting rubber form.

[10 pnt move up]

Speaking of super trainers..........is it me or have they disappeared a bit in socal? Mullins, Ted West, Dough Oneill.....who all were some of the more suspicious guys have been pedestrian for a while now.

Maybe its the elimination of the claiming races there at all but the lowest levels?

Maybe there are some new guys I am unaware of.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Speaking of super trainers..........is it me or have they disappeared a bit in socal? Mullins, Ted West, Dough Oneill.....who all were some of the more suspicious guys have been pedestrian for a while now.

Maybe its the elimination of the claiming races there at all but the lowest levels?

Maybe there are some new guys I am unaware of.

I don't think Ted West and O'Neill ever arroused any strong suspicion from serious people. Especially Ted West.

Mullins is still getting it done. He's winning at 24% this year and his new horses are overachieving all of the time. Even with his bodybuilding distractions, he's doing the work of a God with what he has.

Mullins and Mike Mitchell have been the leading alchmeists of the So. Cal circuit for a great long while now.

[Cannon Shell]

The media in regards to any business/industry/sport is only able to affect change in one of two ways. Either unearth/prove corruption which is not such an easy thing to do or cause strong public reaction with reporting of controversial issue which forces a reaction from the business/industry/sport. Racing media is for the most part toothless where it even exists. There are few mainstream papers covering racing outside the T. Crown/B. Cup and of those that do the NY Daily news and Times are both manned by buffoons who believe themselves far smarter and in tune with what is going on than the actually they are. Paulick is pretty hopeless as the Lexington blue blood crowd is what he fancies and they are totally out to lunch. Who else is there?

The sad reality is what Tom is complaining about is not only completely valid but a far greater threat to the health of the sport than most of the other ancillary nonsense combined. Sure no one really cares about Penn National outside of those that are racing there and the tiny group of players that bets that product but the perception of corruption is not unique to the small trcks.

I was sitting at MTH with a bunch of guys playing on Sat in handicapping tourney there. A lot of serious players who bet a pretty good amount of money, some with a good feel for the realities of the game and some just good handicappers. And when Belmont runs a 3 horse race on a Sat card they all just chuckle and wonder aloud why on a Sat would this race be carded? But the real rumbling starts when Serey's horse in the 3rd runs off the screen. The horse figured in the race but the reemergence of Serey and the unveiling of Ramon Moya, Sr. who wins another race later in the card which gives him close to 50% win % for the year (training for a group of ex Carlos Guerrero owners which of course isnt lost on anyone) just drives most of these guys crazy. The thing is that every trainer on a hot streak isnt juiced and every horse that reverses form isnt because of drugs but because these things and people are allowed to go unchecked AND there seems to be little to no response from track management or the state regulators or stewards or horseman organizations the PERCEPTION is that cheating is allowed which implicates pretty much all of us in the business. The idea that a lot of horsemen arent skeptical and tired in a lot of cases of Jamie Ness is wrong. Alot of owners have left or cut down a lot because of the juice guys but they dont leave with much fanfare. They just leave and when there are empty stalls at tracks with pretty good purses the industry consensus (almost always wrong by the way) is that there is a horse shortage when there most certainly are plenty of horses in this country but a distinct lack of new people to buy and race them. The reasons that so many people are dead wrong about so much in this business is they are so willing to go along with something that sounds plausible as opposed to actually doing a bit of critical thinking or looking up the facts. The idea that Ness is just a better horseman is laughable in the way that Madoff was just a superior money manager. The idea that the business needs younger people is so off base because the age of the people we need to target is insignificant to a huge number of factors that should be far more important like "is there a good chance that they will bet". Perhaps we can blame the racing media for being lazy for the most part, yeah but there just arent enough of them to make a difference even if they werent for the most part so inept.

I cant reiterate strongly enough that there are very few people in leadership positions in this business that really have any grasp of the issues, have any understanding of what the customers in the grandstand or backside want and any temerity to ever deal with anything other than what is directly in front of them.

When some of your biggest customers are standing up and injecting the air with imaginary syringes when your leading trainers are winning races....well what else is there to say about your product?

[rpncaine]

Wow!

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Not at all.

Penn National is one of the more straight-forward tracks for speed figure making.

They are very cut and dry all the time at Penn National.

Golden Gate is a track that is brutal for figure making -- the track repeatedly changes speed throughout the day. It's a first class pain in the ass and you're on your toes and guessing because of the small fields, the way the main track changes speed all the time, and the way they card a mix of turf and syn, not to mention sometimes they'll run two different baby races with all FTS.

Now, from GG, they go to PLN. A dirt surface where the vast majority of horses are exiting rubber form.

I stand corrected.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

I don't think Ted West and O'Neill ever arroused any strong suspicion from serious people. Especially Ted West.

Mullins is still getting it done. He's winning at 24% this year and his new horses are overachieving all of the time. Even with his bodybuilding distractions, he's doing the work of a God with what he has.

Mullins and Mike Mitchell have been the leading alchmeists of the So. Cal circuit for a great long while now.

West won at like 30% a few years back, I got a few good West stories.

I forgot about Mitchell, but it feels as if his horse move ups are not nearly as pronounced.

I was with Mitchell and a friend of mine who claimed a horse for 20k or so and moved him to 50k (back when those #'s meant something at Del Mar) and there was little doubt he was going to win (it ended up being very close), and we all scored out at 9/1.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

to me the problem in as far as ness and dutrow and involved. the sport has no reciprocal Jurisdiction in these matters.get caught..no biggie ill appeal..and still run, still win. owners dont care hes winning. why should the reporters ie drf ect keep raising the question and over and over again nothing is done.until we have a commissioner in racing that has absolute power in regards to drug positives that carrys over in all tracks in the us we will never have a level playing field.yes we can achieve this.a standardized testing procedure would have to be set up.imo starting a racehorse should be privilege not a right. especialy when people are gambling on them..

my 2c

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

to me the problem in as far as ness and dutrow and involved. the sport has no reciprocal Jurisdiction in these matters.get caught..no biggie ill appeal..and still run, still win. owners dont care hes winning. why should the reporters ie drf ect keep raising the question and over and over again nothing is done.until we have a commissioner in racing that has absolute power in regards to drug positives that carrys over in all tracks in the us we will never have a level playing field.yes we can achieve this.a standardized testing procedure would have to be set up.imo starting a racehorse should be privilege not a right. especialy when people are gambling on them..

my 2c

states generally reciprocate tho. if you're suspended in one, typically other states consider you suspended as well.
the one thing i don't care for is the endless appeals process. then there are court stays, etc. or those who defend a trainer when he gets caught, again. 'but he's a nice guy' they say. yeah, not all bad guys have bad attitudes. roger goodell isn't well-liked in my house right now (hubby is po'd at him, tony's a saints fan) but just think if we had a commish? especially one with some cajones. just think...no, patrick biancone, you're not welcome here any more. assman-yeah, you're done...etc, etc.
have some rules with real teeth, real sentences, fines, suspensions (not vacations)....run the cheaters out. owners can still own, and you might draw more of them in because they'd feel they had a level playing field. and they'd have to hire a clean trainer! who loses in that situation? just the cheaters.
ah, one can dream....