2013-2014 NBA Season

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

So overrated.

Overrated in what capacity?

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He can be your best player if you have complimentary parts around him. The Knicks do not.

Harden isn't exactly Mr Defense either

At least he gets steals. He's a better all-around player than Melo.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Scav

We would welcome LeBron guarding Rose now. Matter of fact, love it. Since that happened two years ago, Deng and Noah have both improved offensively, and guys like Jimmy Butler and Taj Gibson have emerged. I don't know how I feel about Dunleavy yet cause I'm not sure he can play the type of defensive Thibs is gonna ask for.

Bulls, Heat and Pacers will be the top 3 in East, in any order, pretty much dependent on what injuries happen.

Yup

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

At least he gets steals. He's a better all-around player than Melo.

Harden is a very good player but his defense is indifferent. He creates for others with penetration and isnt a ball stopper like Carmelo.

Melo is a good rebounder and not a bad defender when he plays PF. Harden is a fair defender at best.

IMO Carmelo is a team killer because he really wants to put up numbers more than win. However if placed in the proper system he could be a real killer. He is the ultimate stretch 4 but his teams always seem to not play him in that role and with Bargnani coming in it will be more of the same.

Harden commits a lot of turnovers.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Overrated in what capacity?

I know I'm the running joke around here, but one thing I know is my NBA I will respond to everyone when I return to work tonight

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

I know I'm the running joke around here, but one thing I know is my NBA I will respond to everyone when I return to work tonight

Just curious to know why you believe Rose is overrated?

[Duvalier]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Portland is a little banged up and will be less than full strength for the beginning of the season which is probably why the total is low but a few of the west teams clearly are down and the blazers have a pretty good core of players (Aldridge, Batum, Lillard, Lopez) and vets looking for one more contract (Mo Williams, Wes Mathews, Dorell Wright) and a couple of potential emerging role players (Robinson, Leonard, injured rookie McCollum, Crabbe) and should be a .500 team or a touch better if the small ball works.

LaMarcus Aldridge pulled early from the game Wed and headed to the locker room...went for an MRI Thursday after sitting out practice, and he is sitting out tonight's game. Hopefully it's just precautionary and nothing serious or the Blazers are in major trouble. That organization has seen more than it's fair share of injuries.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Duvalier

LaMarcus Aldridge pulled early from the game Wed and headed to the locker room...went for an MRI Thursday after sitting out practice, and he is sitting out tonight's game. Hopefully it's just precautionary and nothing serious or the Blazers are in major trouble. That organization has seen more than it's fair share of injuries.

He isnt exactly sturdy. The only bright side is if they miss the playoffs they keep their number 1 pick this year and dont have to send it to Charlotte

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Just curious to know why you believe Rose is overrated?

Where does one start Chuck?? Biggest fraud MVP ever in any sport. He does not deserve an MVP because people were tired of giving it to Lebron. Its simply not fair, not right and whatever else you want to call it.
Rose is a big hype machine IMO. Stories about how NBA players used to drive hours to get street ball games with him when he was only a high school player, he is a hype machine. He is the second coming off nothing. Hes overrated because I can name 10 players that are better then him right now, but he is an MVP and discussed as one of the best in the NBA.
Im not even talking about the fact that he did not play at all last year, when he was cleared to play. Its a joke other people would be crucified, this dude somehow got off.
Lets talk stats now, he plays no D. He averages .9 steals a game for his career. He does not rebound well for a 6'4 dude. His shooting % has also gone down 3 years in a row that he has actually played basketball. Now this is just based on the eye test, but personally I would take Curry, Harden, Lebron, Paul, Durant, Rondo, Westbrook and Irving over Rose. Those guys are for sure. Then you got guys like Melo, and Howard who even though I dislike, I would still prefer them over Rose. Im a Rose hater, Ill admit it. I dislike the guy.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Where does one start Chuck?? Biggest fraud MVP ever in any sport. He does not deserve an MVP because people were tired of giving it to Lebron. Its simply not fair, not right and whatever else you want to call it.
Rose is a big hype machine IMO. Stories about how NBA players used to drive hours to get street ball games with him when he was only a high school player, he is a hype machine. He is the second coming off nothing. Hes overrated because I can name 10 players that are better then him right now, but he is an MVP and discussed as one of the best in the NBA.
Im not even talking about the fact that he did not play at all last year, when he was cleared to play. Its a joke other people would be crucified, this dude somehow got off.
Lets talk stats now, he plays no D. He averages .9 steals a game for his career. He does not rebound well for a 6'4 dude. His shooting % has also gone down 3 years in a row that he has actually played basketball. Now this is just based on the eye test, but personally I would take Curry, Harden, Lebron, Paul, Durant, Rondo, Westbrook and Irving over Rose. Those guys are for sure. Then you got guys like Melo, and Howard who even though I dislike, I would still prefer them over Rose. Im a Rose hater, Ill admit it. I dislike the guy.

Point 1-Ok fine, give it to LeBron that year but Rose certainly could have been considered the 2nd best player that year. That isnt being overrated.

Point 2-Name me an NBA star who isn't a hype machine?

Point 3- Can you name 10 better players at his position than him? He can't be ranked worse than the 3rd best PG in the world can he? It is hard to compare players at different positions but if you were choosing up teams with every player in the world available he'd certainly be in the top 10 selected.

Point 4- His playing or not playing last year has nothing to do with where he would be rated. Assuming he is 100% (and Scavs says he is so it must be so) he is an All NBA player

Point 5- Steals are a horrible way to assess a players defensive ability. I distinctly remember heaing about his coach instructing him to save himself on defense and not take chances because he was so much of the focal point of the teams offense a few years back. He plays for the preeminent defensive coach in the league, his defense will be fine.

Point 5- He is a PG on a team full of rebounding bigs. His career rebounding avg per game is the same as everybodys all american James Harden. He averages a rebound a game more than Tony Parker.

Point 6- His FG% went down for 3 years because A) he took more shots and
B) his number of 3 point shots went way up and naturally the % for 3pt FG's is lower than 2pt FG's though this is tempered by the fact you get 3 points for a basket rather than 2.
His rookie year he took 1200 shots in 3000 minutes
his last full season he took 1600 in 3000 minutes
That is a 25% increase in shots attempted and he took 300 more 3 pt shots than he did his 1st season. His true shooting percentage (combination of 2pt, 3pt and FT's) has actually gone up. His FG% on 2 pt shots is higher than Curry's.

Point 7- You named 8 guys that you'd take over him. That puts him in the top 10 in the world. How is that overrated?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Biggest fraud MVP ever in any sport. .

I believe Zoilo Versalles in 1965 for AL MVP was the worst MVP in any sport ever.
Though Mickey Cochrane in 1934 over Lou Gehrig was probably a terrible injustice but Cochrane was a hall of famer

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Point 1-Ok fine, give it to LeBron that year but Rose certainly could have been considered the 2nd best player that year. That isnt being overrated.

Point 2-Name me an NBA star who isn't a hype machine?

Point 3- Can you name 10 better players at his position than him? He can't be ranked worse than the 3rd best PG in the world can he? It is hard to compare players at different positions but if you were choosing up teams with every player in the world available he'd certainly be in the top 10 selected.

Point 4- His playing or not playing last year has nothing to do with where he would be rated. Assuming he is 100% (and Scavs says he is so it must be so) he is an All NBA player

Point 5- Steals are a horrible way to assess a players defensive ability. I distinctly remember heaing about his coach instructing him to save himself on defense and not take chances because he was so much of the focal point of the teams offense a few years back. He plays for the preeminent defensive coach in the league, his defense will be fine.

Point 5- He is a PG on a team full of rebounding bigs. His career rebounding avg per game is the same as everybodys all american James Harden. He averages a rebound a game more than Tony Parker.

Point 6- His FG% went down for 3 years because A) he took more shots and
B) his number of 3 point shots went way up and naturally the % for 3pt FG's is lower than 2pt FG's though this is tempered by the fact you get 3 points for a basket rather than 2.
His rookie year he took 1200 shots in 3000 minutes
his last full season he took 1600 in 3000 minutes
That is a 25% increase in shots attempted and he took 300 more 3 pt shots than he did his 1st season. His true shooting percentage (combination of 2pt, 3pt and FT's) has actually gone up. His FG% on 2 pt shots is higher than Curry's.

Point 7- You named 8 guys that you'd take over him. That puts him in the top 10 in the world. How is that overrated?

Lets start with point 7 and Ill link that to his health also. Right now I can name 25 guys I would no questions ask take over. The dude missed like 16 months for an injury most men are back in 8-12. He was special though, so he needed double. At his position right now, assuming everyone is healthy I would take Curry, Paul, Wesbrook Irving over him for sure. Im not a big John Wall guy, but maybe even him. Maybe Tony Parker. Those are the straight PG's. Now is Rose a combo, or a 1? Combo we can add in Wade and Harden for sure. Maybe even Williams, who Im thinking will have a really good year. Even though I personally dont love him. Honestly I would take my boy Eric Bledsoe over him right now. Who knows if he will even play, who knows when he will need 16 more months and then have his brother speak for him, who knows Chuck?

[Duvalier]

Who do you think comes out of the West? I'm thinking Doc Rivers has a big impact on the Clippers. That conference really is wide open though...you can make a case for like five or six teams.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Duvalier

Who do you think comes out of the West? I'm thinking Doc Rivers has a big impact on the Clippers. That conference really is wide open though...you can make a case for like five or six teams.

Wide open. I prefer Golden State and Houston. But a lot of things have to happen. Golden St needs to stay healthy and Barnes needs to continue to progress. For Houston, Dwight Howard needs to be healthy and and play like he did a few years in Orlando. Im worried about Westbrooks injury, we shall see. I hope he comes back strong, because he is great. Spurs I think will regress, but be right there. Clippers will be really good. Minnesota, I believe will be improved, again kinda depends on health though.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Lets start with point 7 and Ill link that to his health also. Right now I can name 25 guys I would no questions ask take over. The dude missed like 16 months for an injury most men are back in 8-12. He was special though, so he needed double. At his position right now, assuming everyone is healthy I would take Curry, Paul, Wesbrook Irving over him for sure. Im not a big John Wall guy, but maybe even him. Maybe Tony Parker. Those are the straight PG's. Now is Rose a combo, or a 1? Combo we can add in Wade and Harden for sure. Maybe even Williams, who Im thinking will have a really good year. Even though I personally dont love him. Honestly I would take my boy Eric Bledsoe over him right now. Who knows if he will even play, who knows when he will need 16 more months and then have his brother speak for him, who knows Chuck?

This is insane talk.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Duvalier

Who do you think comes out of the West? I'm thinking Doc Rivers has a big impact on the Clippers. That conference really is wide open though...you can make a case for like five or six teams.

I'm not sold on the Clippers at all. It is a great landing spot for Rivers but IMO his impact will be a bit overrated. A lot depends on injuries really. I dont like having to depend so much on Crawford like the Clips do when Paul isnt in the game. They will have a lot of trouble guarding bigger guards with Paul and Collison backing him up. I like Reddick and Crawford better off the bench but one has to start. If you have Collison and Crawford on the court at the same time you have to have Jordan in as well or it will be a layup drill. Jordan is really the key to this team, as they can afford to have minus defenders all over the place outside of Barnes with him in the game protecting them rim. I know I hated a lot of the things Del Negro did but Paul more or less runs the team on the floor and dont think the in game managemt was as bad last year as it was in prior years. Be a fun team to watch but I dont see them making it out of the West again.

If Curry and Bogut stay healthy, If the older Spurs stay healthy, If Miller stays healthy in Memphis, If Westbrook comes back healthy... lot of if's healthwise in the West. I guess the biggest question mark healthwise in the league would be Wade. He looked pretty bad for a good portion of the playoffs. Without him being at least 90% of himself it is hard to see Miami winning. Everyone seems to have forgotten that Indiana played them extremely tough and if Allen doesnt hit that unbelievable 3 point shot the Spurs are defending the title.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

This is insane talk.

Ok maybe Westbrook and Rondo because then my Rose injury argument kinda blows up in my face.... But who else is insane??

[Duvalier]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I'm not sold on the Clippers at all. It is a great landing spot for Rivers but IMO his impact will be a bit overrated. A lot depends on injuries really. I dont like having to depend so much on Crawford like the Clips do when Paul isnt in the game. They will have a lot of trouble guarding bigger guards with Paul and Collison backing him up. I like Reddick and Crawford better off the bench but one has to start. If you have Collison and Crawford on the court at the same time you have to have Jordan in as well or it will be a layup drill. Jordan is really the key to this team, as they can afford to have minus defenders all over the place outside of Barnes with him in the game protecting them rim. I know I hated a lot of the things Del Negro did but Paul more or less runs the team on the floor and dont think the in game managemt was as bad last year as it was in prior years. Be a fun team to watch but I dont see them making it out of the West again.

If Curry and Bogut stay healthy, If the older Spurs stay healthy, If Miller stays healthy in Memphis, If Westbrook comes back healthy... lot of if's healthwise in the West. I guess the biggest question mark healthwise in the league would be Wade. He looked pretty bad for a good portion of the playoffs. Without him being at least 90% of himself it is hard to see Miami winning. Everyone seems to have forgotten that Indiana played them extremely tough and if Allen doesnt hit that unbelievable 3 point shot the Spurs are defending the title.

Totally agree on DeAndre Jordan being the key...that's why I'm leaning towards picking them to come out of the West, along with the injury/health concerns surrounding some of the other contending teams out there. I think Jordan will have a big time breakout year for the Clips. And I do like Doc Rivers over Vinny Del Negro. Still pulling for the Blazers though.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Ok maybe Westbrook and Rondo because then my Rose injury argument kinda blows up in my face.... But who else is insane??

John Wall? the 2013-14 version of Wade? the current version of D Williams? Eric Bledsoe?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Duvalier

Totally agree on DeAndre Jordan being the key...that's why I'm leaning towards picking them to come out of the West, along with the injury/health concerns surrounding some of the other contending teams out there. I think Jordan will have a big time breakout year for the Clips. And I do like Doc Rivers over Vinny Del Negro. Still pulling for the Blazers though.

He is basically poor mans version of Tyson Chandler. It isn't like they are going to let him start shooting and on defense it isn't his effort that gets him in trouble, it is his poor decision making. Plus until he figures out how to shoot 60% or so from the line (shot 39% last year which is disgraceful) it will be hard to play him late in games. If he can take the next step, play better defensively, stay out of foul trouble, shoot FT's just good enough, the Clippers will be dangerous.