Lava Man - Prep at Keeneland - Page 2

Cajungator26 · #21 10-10-2006, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Eyes

If you drive like Wayne Lukas.

LOL... I guess I do, then. I made it from Keeneland to Churchill Downs in about 50 minutes. LOL

#22 10-10-2006, 05:14 PM

I think it's a good move on the trainers part. The horse has 3 weeks to settle in. Shipping can be tough on a horse. He's pretty much going to be training on the same surface if he'd stayed in Cal. but perhaps the trainer was considering the weather change. I don't know how quickly he would get acclimated or if it would really make that big of a difference. I think the trainer just wants to near CHD if he decides to give the horse a work over the surface.

#23 10-10-2006, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

LOL... I guess I do, then. I made it from Keeneland to Churchill Downs in about 50 minutes. LOL

LOL. I remember reading an article in the Herald Leader about Wayne joking about being able to get to Keeneland "quickly". Scarey driver.

Cajungator26 · #24 10-10-2006, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Eyes

LOL. I remember reading an article in the Herald Leader about Wayne joking about being able to get to Keeneland "quickly". Scarey driver.

Me too... I only have two (or maybe one) more chances at driving school... I haven't gotten a ticket in about a year, but when I get them... they're big ones.

2MinsToPost · #25 10-10-2006, 05:21 PM

I have a perfect driving record (inside joke)

The Bid · #26 10-10-2006, 05:28 PM

Ah, its actually about 45 minutes if you go 60. To make it an hour and a half trip youd have to be getting some throat

Antitrust32 · #27 10-10-2006, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I think it's a bad move. What is training at Keeneland going to do to help him for Churchill? They are two entirely different tracks. Might as well have stayed home and kept him at Hollywood. At least he already knows he likes that Hollywood junk. This is worthless in my opinion. I hate all this talk about letting horses get acclimated to a surface. Either they will like it or they won't. If u don't like broccoli, is your mother making u eat more of it going to make u like it? No. If a horse doesn't like a certain track (say it's too hard and stings his feet or something), he's going to run worse on it the more he trains on it because he will have had time to develop a memory of how it hurts. And this is even worse because he's not training on the track he's running on. Now watch the weather cause O'Neill to lose some days of training. Just watch. While it's beautiful here in Southern Cal.

It is a great move actually. Horses seem to thrive when training on the poly and then running over the dirt. Example: Lava Man has already been doing this. Also, now he wont have to travel the week of the race and will get used to the climate and surroundings. I don't understand how you could think this is a negative.

#28 10-10-2006, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bid

Ah, its actually about 45 minutes if you go 60. To make it an hour and a half trip youd have to be getting some throat

Getting some throat? thats a new one on me! lol My personal favorite is "swallowing the children".

#29 10-10-2006, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Eyes

LOL. I remember reading an article in the Herald Leader about Wayne joking about being able to get to Keeneland "quickly". Scarey driver.

50 minutes is about right from Louisville.

Danzig · #30 10-10-2006, 05:57 PM

o'neill said some time ago he was going to ship in weeks ahead. smart move, as shipping in just prior obviously didn't work for the Man.
also, as was noted above, this horse is running lights out compared to last year, and certainly hasn't had to be vanned off after a huge effort, as he was last year just before going to japan.
he's been training on poly while racing on dirt. and of course the turf back when. horse is doing well, so keep doing it.

he's not the only one shipping either. invasor and bernardini taking a trip to ky as well. neutral ground...apparently ky is the new switzerland.

King Glorious · #31 10-10-2006, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

It is a great move actually. Horses seem to thrive when training on the poly and then running over the dirt. Example: Lava Man has already been doing this. Also, now he wont have to travel the week of the race and will get used to the climate and surroundings. I don't understand how you could think this is a negative.

I say this because I don't think it was the traveling during the week of the race that was getting him beat last year. As has been noted many times, he was coming off of an extremely tough race last year when he went to NY so I don't know that the traveling was to be blamed.

U say that Lava Man has been thriving with the training on the Poly then running on dirt but I say that last year when he was training on the dirt, he was running better than he is this year. Last year, Lava Man went 116-120-112 for the California/Gold Cup/Pacific Classic triple. He went 109 this year in the Gold Cup and Pacific Classic. Where is the evidence that he's thriving more this year while training on Poly (which he's only been doing for a short time anyway) than he was last year on dirt.

My concern is that even though they say that no matter the weather conditions, the track remains fast, I have some concerns that he's going to miss some training time out there because of the weather. I'm just not sold on the whole acclimating angle. One of the most successful trainers in the history of the game, Wayne Lukas, was known as "D. Wayne Off the Plane"...in part because he was well known for shipping a horse in late and taking the money. European trainers struggled for years trying to find the right time to ship in for the BC. Some said it was better to ship in early and acclimate. Some said it was better to ship in right on top of the race. There still is no set answer. Personally, I'd rather keep a horse at home in his normal environment for as long as I can before shipping out. Will this work for Lava Man? None of us know one way or the other. Neither does he trainer.

King Glorious · #32 10-10-2006, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig188

o'neill said some time ago he was going to ship in weeks ahead. smart move, as shipping in just prior obviously didn't work for the Man.
also, as was noted above, this horse is running lights out compared to last year, and certainly hasn't had to be vanned off after a huge effort, as he was last year just before going to japan.
he's been training on poly while racing on dirt. and of course the turf back when. horse is doing well, so keep doing it.

he's not the only one shipping either. invasor and bernardini taking a trip to ky as well. neutral ground...apparently ky is the new switzerland.

To say he is running lights out compared to last year is just dead wrong. His figures from last year, his racing times from last year.......he was running better last year than he has been this year. He just got back to back 109 Beyer's in the Gold Cup and Pacific Classic. Last year he got 120 and 112 in those two races, right on the heels of a 116 in the Californian.

#33 10-10-2006, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I think it's a bad move. What is training at Keeneland going to do to help him for Churchill? They are two entirely different tracks. Might as well have stayed home and kept him at Hollywood. At least he already knows he likes that Hollywood junk. This is worthless in my opinion. I hate all this talk about letting horses get acclimated to a surface. Either they will like it or they won't. If u don't like broccoli, is your mother making u eat more of it going to make u like it? No. If a horse doesn't like a certain track (say it's too hard and stings his feet or something), he's going to run worse on it the more he trains on it because he will have had time to develop a memory of how it hurts. And this is even worse because he's not training on the track he's running on. Now watch the weather cause O'Neill to lose some days of training. Just watch. While it's beautiful here in Southern Cal.

King,

As a sort-of student of the sport ... you're aware that in decades past ... the trainers of the top horses would always try to get in a race over the track before the big G1 event ... in order to familiarize his creature-of-habit with the racing surface... and to see how the horse reacts ... and to make strategic adjustments to equipment and racing tactics.

The only mistake O'Neill is making ... is not giving Lava Man a race over the Churchill track before the BC Classic. Or will he? Such a race would greatly improve Lava Man's chances of getting the place money.

Oh, for the days when trainers understood the value of prep races!

#34 10-10-2006, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Eyes

LOL. I remember reading an article in the Herald Leader about Wayne joking about being able to get to Keeneland "quickly". Scarey driver.

Is that why he always dresses like a chauffeur?

Danzig · #35 10-10-2006, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

To say he is running lights out compared to last year is just dead wrong. His figures from last year, his racing times from last year.......he was running better last year than he has been this year. He just got back to back 109 Beyer's in the Gold Cup and Pacific Classic. Last year he got 120 and 112 in those two races, right on the heels of a 116 in the Californian.

guess i was just going by his overall record this year, and all he's accomplished this year, compared to last. i'll take his undefeated year over his beyers from last year.

King Glorious · #36 10-10-2006, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig188

guess i was just going by his overall record this year, and all he's accomplished this year, compared to last. i'll take his undefeated year over his beyers from last year.

Ok, understood. I do think though that last year, he was running a lot better than he is this year. The only races that I thought he's run as well as he did last year have been his turf races. I don't think any of his dirt efforts have been as good as his Gold Cup and Pacific Classic last year, even though he lost the Pacific Classic.

#37 10-10-2006, 08:42 PM

This poor horse could prep on Mars and I doubt it would matter much on Nov. 4....he'll be staring at the asz of a locomotive rolling away from him in the stretch called "Bernie's Express"

2Hot4TV · #38 10-10-2006, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

This poor horse could prep on Mars and I doubt it would matter much on Nov. 4....he'll be staring at the asz of a locomotive rolling away from him in the stretch called "Bernie's Express"

Lava Man is not poor by any means and for a former claimer to race in the Classic is the underdogs dream and legends are made of.

Pointg5 · #39 10-10-2006, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV

Lava Man is not poor by any means and for a former claimer to race in the Classic is the underdogs dream and legends are made of.

Bud Royale

SniperSB23 · #40 10-11-2006, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Ok, understood. I do think though that last year, he was running a lot better than he is this year. The only races that I thought he's run as well as he did last year have been his turf races. I don't think any of his dirt efforts have been as good as his Gold Cup and Pacific Classic last year, even though he lost the Pacific Classic.

I agree with you that he was running faster last year, the level of competition out west was exposed by Brother Derek and Good Reward. Last year there was a really strong California contingent of older horses, this year it is dreadfully weak behind Lava Man.

I think you are overestimating the days missed due to the weather factor. I thought one of the biggest positives for polytrack was that horses never had to miss time due to weather since the track is just as good, or better, when it rains.