RacingPost reports 'Dini done after BC...

[somerfrost]

Another day, another kick in the teeth for fans of this sport! I'll withhold further comment until it is official that they are retiring him, afterall...my feelings about that crowd is well documented.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Gander

Discreet Cat would get dusted by Bernardini. If Wanderin Boy was running against the same horses Discreet Cat has been beating up on, he too would look like a monster. Gimmee a break. A horse that runs 4 times a year shouldnt even be talked about until he runs in a race with meaning.

And how is that different than the types of fields Bernardini has been facing? LMAO

And why run Discreet Cat in the DWC instead of Bernardini? Makes no sense to me... especially if the Sheik's don't care about the $$.

Originally Posted by King Glorious

While it would be disappointing, I don't think it has any effect on how good or great Bernardini is as a horse. If u think he's great now, why would he need another 15-20 races to prove it? Sometimes, careers are cut short but the brilliance is still evident. In racing, think Landaluce or Ruffian. In basketball, there was Len Bias. Football had Gayle Sayers. When greatness is there, it's there whether u get to see it for five races or 50. I'm not saying whether u have to believe that Bernardini is an all-time great but what I am saying is that if he did what he's been doing for another 20 races and u would proclaim him great at that point, then the talent is there now for u to call him great because if it wasn't already there now, he wouldn't be able to do it in the future. It's my feeling that more races would only confirm further to the non-believers what the believers already know.

Your concept of "greatness" is a bit more ethereal than mine.

I believe greatness is a function of proven performance ... not of speculation on what might have been. Coulda/shoulda/woulda doesn't count.

As I said in my previous post ... all we can say about Bernardini ... and Lammtarra ... is that they had great 3YO campaigns.

They only faced the best horses available in one random year. The really, really great ones did a lot more ... they beat the best ones around in multiple years ... a much more difficult achievement.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Your concept of "greatness" is a bit more ethereal than mine.

I believe greatness is a function of proven performance ... not of speculation on what might have been. Coulda/shoulda/woulda doesn't count.

As I said in my previous post ... all we can say about Bernardini ... and Lammtarra ... is that they had great 3YO campaigns.

They only faced the best horses available in one random year. The really, really great ones did a lot more ... they beat the best ones around in multiple years ... a much more difficult achievement.

I agree 100% with this post. Thank you for putting it into words that I couldn't...

[TitanSooner]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

They are the enemies of racing.

This is just further confirmation. Only the breeders can defend them because they have made them staggeringly wealthy.

Pretty lame....makes me root against this horse and every horse they have.

Amen.......

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Cardus

It's fairly simple to me: Shake Mo wants Bernardini to be his foundation dirt sire. Why not? He has the breeding top and bottom.

Since he wants to win the Derby and do it his way, what better way than to win it with his sire? And an A.P. Indy is more likely to produce a classic winner than a Forestry, no?

Everything I have heard regarding Sheik Mo is that he is a "sporting man"... a sporting man doesn't take his supposed best horse out of training to put him in the breeding shed for no apparent reason... JMO.

Originally Posted by Dunbar

The sheik's don't have a monopoly on rushing the stars to the breeding shed.

Taking the money and running ... is perfectly underestandable when the horse is owned by an Average Joe who wants to ensure his family's future financial needs.

I didn't mind "Chappy" retiring Smarty Jones ... I just resented his lying to us about it with that phony "what's best for the horse" PR spin.

The Maktoums aren't your Average Mohammeds ... they've got billions and billions of stolen dollars ... and the syndication of Bernardini won't even amount to a decimal point on their balance sheets.

This just shows a complete lack of class ... and total contempt for the racing public.

[Betsy]

If this is true, I can't tell you how disappointed I am. So much for the Sheikh being a sportsman. What, he can't wait one more year for Bernardini's foals? His connections seem to be having such a good time watching their homebred run - I don't understand this rush to the breeding shed when it's clear they don't need the money. Clearly now, even for the Sheikh, it's about establishing Darley/Jonabell as a top stud farm. I don't have a problem with that per se, but he can no longer claim to be a sportsman. I expect Bernardini to win the Classic, but this is a punch in the gut and a real blow to the sport.

I don't think there are any sportsmen left in this game - what a shame. This colt had so much more to give. I'm going to have a difficult time enjoying the run up to the BC now.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

They are the enemies of racing.

This is just further confirmation. Only the breeders can defend them because they have made them staggeringly wealthy.

Pretty lame....makes me root against this horse and every horse they have.

Double Amen.

[Revolution]

Somebody thinks he is great, because his stud starting fee is rumored to exceed Ghostzappers.

[Thunder Gulch]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Taking the money and running ... is perfectly underestandable when the horse is owned by an Average Joe who wants to ensure his family's future financial needs.

I didn't mind "Chappy" retiring Smarty Jones ... I just resented his lying to us about it with that phony "what's best for the horse" PR spin.

The Maktoums aren't your Average Mohammeds ... they've got billions and billions of stolen dollars ... and the syndication of Bernardini won't even amount to a decimal point on their balance sheets.

This just shows a complete lack of class ... and total contempt for the racing public.

I do agree that it's hard to justify taking this horse away for breeding purposes. These guys make more money before lunch everyday than a standing Bernardini for a year would produce. It's impossible to justify it by saying he will produce other Bernardini's because it's such an unknown once you transfer them to the shed. Besides, look at Saint Liam and others who met their demise off the track.
While the retirement of Smarty, A. Alex, and others was disappointing, I can't say I wouldn't act the same way if the financial opportunity presented itself.

[randallscott35]

Sorry to say but I have to root against him in the Classic. I don't want to hear for the rest of my life how insanely special he was when he didn't raced for a grand total of 8 starts. A beating or off the board in the BCC would cement that I would never have to hear that....That's 8 starts people. Not 20. He is anything but overraced. This is as bad a decision as it gets.

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Taking the money and running ... is perfectly underestandable when the horse is owned by an Average Joe who wants to ensure his family's future financial needs.

I didn't mind "Chappy" retiring Smarty Jones ... I just resented his lying to us about it with that phony "what's best for the horse" PR spin.

The Maktoums aren't your Average Mohammeds ... they've got billions and billions of stolen dollars ... and the syndication of Bernardini won't even amount to a decimal point on their balance sheets.

This just shows a complete lack of class ... and total contempt for the racing public.

BB you are being too hard on the Chapmans. He definitely had major issues after the Belmont. Definitely.
Chapman turned down a blank check for him before the Derby, and when agents called on the horse after his debut, at least one agent anyway, they were told nicely by his trainer that he wasn't for sale, and never would be at any price.
Noone was lying, he had issues that made it impossible for him to race again at that level.

[GenuineRisk]

is it mean for me to hope Bernardini turns out to be sterile? It'd serve 'em right.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

is it mean for me to hope Bernardini turns out to be sterile? It'd serve 'em right.

Or War Emblem who would be watching queer eye if he could instead of handling his business.

Originally Posted by oracle80

BB you are being too hard on the Chapmans. He definitely had major issues after the Belmont. Definitely.
Chapman turned down a blank check for him before the Derby, and when agents called on the horse after his debut, at least one agent anyway, they were told nicely by his trainer that he wasn't for sale, and never would be at any price.
Noone was lying, he had issues that made it impossible for him to race again at that level.

Is this first-hand knowledge on your part ... or are you accepting someone's word for it?

I find it hard to believe that Smarty Jones could not have returned sound as a 4YO.

If I were Chappy ... I definitely would have grabbed the dough ... but I don't think I would have tried to spin the racing public about it. Nothing wrong with saying, "We need the money ... so we're retiring and syndicating our horse."

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Your concept of "greatness" is a bit more ethereal than mine.

I believe greatness is a function of proven performance ... not of speculation on what might have been. Coulda/shoulda/woulda doesn't count.

As I said in my previous post ... all we can say about Bernardini ... and Lammtarra ... is that they had great 3YO campaigns.

They only faced the best horses available in one random year. The really, really great ones did a lot more ... they beat the best ones around in multiple years ... a much more difficult achievement.

I can appreciate this sentiment. To an extent, I agree with u. I would call Bernardini one of the all-time greats.......but wouldn't put him in the Hall of Fame. To me, that is a place that should be reserved for those that combined accomplishments with ability and with durability. I think in order to be a hall of famer, u have to have been a champion in more than one year. But simply on ability, I think that can be seen and judged much earlier. That's not to say that I would put a horse up there after just breaking his maiden or winning some nw2x allowance but if u've demonstrated clearly that u are at the top of the game, even if it's only for one year, that's enough for me. Also, even though he might only be beating the best of this year, if he were to win the Classic, he'd be beating some of the best of multiple years. Lava Man was clearly one of the best of last year and some of the 3yo's that he's beaten this year will be among the best in coming years.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Gander

Discreet Cat would get dusted by Bernardini. If Wanderin Boy was running against the same horses Discreet Cat has been beating up on, he too would look like a monster. Gimmee a break. A horse that runs 4 times a year shouldnt even be talked about until he runs in a race with meaning.

I'd be careful about that one. I'm as big a Bernardini fan as anyone, but DC may end up being better.. Seriously.

[sham]

We could pool our money and hire someone to slip in and castrate the horse.

Why are no American publications reporting this? Bernardini is an American horse, from my perspective. Last week the NY Daily News reported in backpage headlines that Joe Torre is out as the Yankee skipper. I am going to hold off on my disappointment; I did not recover from Vindication yet.