And The Winner Of The Belmont is........

[RHT2004]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Sal actually thinks Keen Ice ran a great race, considering the 'super slow' pace of the Derby.

That's nonsensical, of course.

He is one of the very good handicappers I speak of. I dont get how speed figure guys can like this horse. Top beyer 88 coming in a race where the horse who won has the same running style as him. A horse some of those same top handicappers said was to slow to win the Derby. How can you knock International Star and then tout Keen Ice?

[Max]

If someone can beat American Pharoah I think it will be Materiality. BIG trip in the Derby.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by RHT2004

He is one of the very good handicappers I speak of. I dont get how speed figure guys can like this horse. Top beyer 88 coming in a race where the horse who won has the same running style as him. A horse some of those same top handicappers said was to slow to win the Derby. How can you knock International Star and then tout Keen Ice?

Yeah, it makes no sense at all man.

I think he got too cute with himself. He's had some good scores in the past using that line of reasoning, but unlike most other years, this crop is more top heavy in talented runners, so I believe it's a lot harder for a slow clunk up type of runner to clunk up for a piece.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by RHT2004

A horse some of those same top handicappers said was to slow to win the Derby. How can you knock International Star and then tout Keen Ice?

The Belmont is a different race. Loads of "too slow" horses have won the Belmont.

[RHT2004]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Yeah, it makes no sense at all man.

I think he got too cute with himself. He's had some good scores in the past using that line of reasoning, but unlike most other years, this crop is more top heavy in talented runners, so I believe it's a lot harder for a slow clunk up type of runner to clunk up for a piece.

If I had used him or keyed him underneath like some people did. The one beef I would have is where were the 1 and 3 early? With Stanford scratching you had to expect them up on the pace. Especially if you bet a plodder like Keen Ice. You needed the race to collapse.

[RHT2004]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

The Belmont is a different race. Loads of "too slow" horses have won the Belmont.

Has a horse ever won the Belmont w/ a top beyer of 88 going in? I don't know for sure, but I doubt it. In a crop where horses are routinely running 100 plus beyers.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by RHT2004

Has a horse ever won the Belmont w/ a top beyer of 88 going in? I don't know for sure, but I doubt it. In a crop where horses are routinely running 100 plus beyers.

Ruler On Ice

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Ruler On Ice

Your comedy routine is definitely on the improve!

[tanner12oz]

Distance doesn't help closers

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by tanner12oz

Distance doesn't help closers

Keen Ice isn't much of a closer, so that axiom shouldn't hurt him.

But if he is a stayer, the distance could help him.

The trainer ran a similar horse last year in the Belmont, Medal Count, and he ran third at nearly 30-1, besting American Chrome.

[RHT2004]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Keen Ice isn't much of a closer, so that axiom shouldn't hurt him.

But if he is a stayer, the distance could help him.

The trainer ran a similar horse last year in the Belmont, Medal Count, and he ran third at nearly 30-1, besting American Chrome.

What is Keen Ice then?
Look at his pps he has never showed any early speed at all. He would be the definition of a closer.

[Kitan]

Originally Posted by RHT2004

What is Keen Ice then?
Look at his pps he has never showed any early speed at all. He would be the definition of a closer.

He's a one-paced plodder who passes tired horses. I probably wouldn't bet him to win the Belmont.

[alysheba4]

Getting ahead of our selfs because if AP loses the Preakness he won't be in New York. I hope frosted and materiality go in the Preakness. Will box those two horses. Think AP and FL won't recover in 2weeks

[munster705]

I do not understand how people are saying Keen Ice did not run a good derby. He was thje only horse from the back moving forwadr at all the 2nd half of the race. If there was enough pace early, he would have been in the running at the end. He is bred to run all day albeit maybe not su fast, but he won't be backing up at 1.5 miles. He is an interesting horse to look out for it really all I was going for with the first post.....

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by munster705

I do not understand how people are saying Keen Ice did not run a good derby. He was thje only horse from the back moving forwadr at all the 2nd half of the race. If there was enough pace early, he would have been in the running at the end. He is bred to run all day albeit maybe not su fast, but he won't be backing up at 1.5 miles. He is an interesting horse to look out for it really all I was going for with the first post.....

Not true. Materiality and Frosted were both moving late too, the former with a horrific trip.

[DonGuido]

Originally Posted by pointman

I'm amazed that People are trying to pick the winner of the Belmont a little less than two weeks before the Preakness has been run.

Way too much idle time on their hands. Me, I'm using my idle time figuring out how I can do more "red boarding" on the Preakness since now I know what turns everyone on here. : cool:

[DonGuido]

Originally Posted by munster705

I do not understand how people are saying Keen Ice did not run a good derby. He was thje only horse from the back moving forwadr at all the 2nd half of the race. If there was enough pace early, he would have been in the running at the end. He is bred to run all day albeit maybe not su fast, but he won't be backing up at 1.5 miles. He is an interesting horse to look out for it really all I was going for with the first post.....

Errrrr maybe all the rest except the top lead 3 or 4 were backing up, ya think??? And I don't get what he's proved to date to deserve these lukewarm accolades. If your basing this on breeding and the Derby . . . foughedaboudit.

[cakes44]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Yep. Ice Box, Denis of Cork, Dullahan, Commanding Curve, etc. The only somewhat recent horse I remember pulling off the Kentucky Derby close/Belmont win double is Jazil.

I know he didn't win, but didn't DoC run a legit 2nd in the Belmont?