gomez...you suck....

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

im not trying to BS anybody mike. im well aware bailey had less mounts and didnt ride as much on a daily basis. LOL what do you think bailey's % woulda been if he woulda rode first call for pletcher? and no not any jock could do that. in the races he rode in do you think he was on tons the best hors everytime, you think the horses he ran against were mules compared to his? bailey didnt decline near the end like other recently retired greats like day, mccaron etc etc

Originally Posted by disappearingdan_akaplaya

agreed you not only have to have the horse but a tremendous amount of racing luck to win the derby

I guess Baffert, Lukas and Zito got lucky a few times. Some guys just are better at preparing for the big ones (can't get away with certain things in those big ones either).

Originally Posted by disappearingdan_akaplaya

im not trying to BS anybody mike. im well aware bailey had less mounts and didnt ride as much on a daily basis. LOL what do you think bailey's % woulda been if he woulda rode first call for pletcher? and no not any jock could do that. in the races he rode in do you think he was on tons the best hors everytime, you think the horses he ran against were mules compared to his? bailey didnt decline near the end like other recently retired greats like day, mccaron etc etc

Ok Playa thats why he got SO MANY votes for the eclipse, everyone had it wrong/
Look there was a year or two when Jerry won teh eclipse on the basis of how much money he won riding a couple big horses where other guys had a better overall year. Thats how it works and you know it. The guy who wins the money gets the crown. Its a standard that is used in the industry. Jerry is an announcer now, and I have no idea why he is brought up by you in every discussion about jockeys who ride NOW!!!!!!
Gomez just sent patrons running to the bathroom to vomit with his 1-21 skid this weekend at Belmont.

Originally Posted by Hoisttheflag

I guess Baffert, Lukas and Zito got lucky a few times. Some guys just are better at preparing for the big ones (can't get away with certain things in those big ones either).

I think that some guys aim for it and some don't. Whittingham never did, and had he not won one is his 80's are you telling me he wouldnt have gone down as a great? Get real will you.
And if your criteria is that winning a derby makes you great, then I guess you would place Cam Gambolati ahead of Frankel, pletcher and Mandella. Is thsi not so? After all, according to you he must be better at preparing for the "Big One"!!! Pletcher, Frankel, and Mandella have won over 100 grade ones betweem them I would say that outweighs winning one derby. What a joke.

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

ok you dont think the eclipse award voting and process is manipulated. yes of cours eim a huge fan of perfect drift but how the hell wasnt he even a finalist for the award after beating mineshaft who recieved the award and beating congaree who was also nominated, PD only lost 1 race on the dirt that year.

Originally Posted by disappearingdan_akaplaya

ok you dont think the eclipse award voting and process is manipulated. yes of cours eim a huge fan of perfect drift but how the hell wasnt he even a finalist for the award after beating mineshaft who recieved the award and beating congaree who was also nominated, PD only lost 1 race on the dirt that year.

Because Mineshaft only lost one as well, and all his races were big dances. PD took some free passes in smaller events. Its a year long award, not a one race award.
I'm sorry Playa, noone in the country, not one writer or horseman or jockey ever at any time voiced any opinion that Bailey got screwed last year.

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

i didnt ask why he didnt recieve the eclipse mike im asking why he wasnt a finalist while medags and congaree were. i dont claim 2 know all or whatever but i can careless about what the majority of the turf writers have to say about anything, especially when theyre making opinionated based statements

Originally Posted by oracle80

I think that some guys aim for it and some don't. Whittingham never did, and had he not won one is his 80's are you telling me he wouldnt have gone down as a great? Get real will you.
And if your criteria is that winning a derby makes you great, then I guess you would place Cam Gambolati ahead of Frankel, pletcher and Mandella. Is thsi not so? After all, according to you he must be better at preparing for the "Big One"!!! Pletcher, Frankel, and Mandella have won over 100 grade ones betweem them I would say that outweighs winning one derby. What a joke.

But he did win his derby and that moment put him in the elite of the elite. In fact that race is what he is known for this day. Also, winning a derby doesn't make you great. You can win a derby and not be great, but without one you can't reach the level of immortality that it gives to the winners. Baffert, Zito, Lukas all are a rung above the others because of their derbys. There isn't an honest trainer that would tell you otherwise.

Originally Posted by disappearingdan_akaplaya

i didnt ask why he didnt recieve the eclipse mike im asking why he wasnt a finalist while medags and congaree were. i dont claim 2 know all or whatever but i can careless about what the majority of the turf writers have to say about anything, especially when theyre making opinionated based statements

Ok look, you are talking about something that noone cares about. And i wil tell you why. When tehy announce finalists, they put the top three vote getters in. In some cases (like Mineshaft) the winner is an avalanche winner. And like 10 clueless souls vote other horses. It was like PD and two others who got like 7,6, and 5 votes.
They werent doing tiered voting then(like they do for MVP of AL for example, where you vote for 1st 2nd 3rd etc. YOu only get one vote. And everyone knew who the champ was. Noone cares or keeps track of who was 2nd and 3rd or a finalist. They dont even put it in breeding catalogues.

Originally Posted by Hoisttheflag

But he did win his derby and that moment put him in the elite of the elite. In fact that race is what he is known for this day. Also, winning a derby doesn't make you great. You can win a derby and not be great, but without one you can't reach the level of immortality that it gives to the winners. Baffert, Zito, Lukas all are a rung above the others because of their derbys. There isn't an honest trainer that would tell you otherwise.

Ok so you just said that Cam Gambolati is among the elite of the elite? And you want me to ever take one thing you ever say again seriously? You have to be kidding me.
Go find one more lunatic alive who thinks hes above Frankel, mandella and Pletcher in terms of greatness. WOW!!! Now I have heard everything!!!!

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

thanks for explaining. now my question is is who all gets a ballot to vote. the chartcaller here claims he gets to vote

Originally Posted by disappearingdan_akaplaya

thanks for explaining. now my question is is who all gets a ballot to vote. the chartcaller here claims he gets to vote

LOL!!!
Playa he might!!!!!
But the thing is each year i do a mockery of some horses that people actually vote for and its sickening. Some guys should have those privileges yanked!!!!

Playa by the way, if they had doen tiered voting that year, PD would definitely have been second.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Ok so you just said that Cam Gambolati is among the elite of the elite? And you want me to ever take one thing you ever say again seriously? You have to be kidding me.
Go find one more lunatic alive who thinks hes above Frankel, mandella and Pletcher in terms of greatness. WOW!!! Now I have heard everything!!!!

Cam isn't the elite of the elite. He is just a good trainer that won a derby. Baffert, Lukas, Zito are elite of elites. You have to be a great trainer that wins the derby. Sorry if you don't like it, but the sport revolves around the derby. Frankel is great, but Frankel with a derby puts him with the immortals. Just the way it is.

Originally Posted by Hoisttheflag

Cam isn't the elite of the elite. He is just a good trainer that won a derby. Baffert, Lukas, Zito are elite of elites. You have to be a great trainer that wins the derby. Sorry if you don't like it, but the sport revolves around the derby. Frankel is great, but Frankel with a derby puts him with the immortals. Just the way it is.

Maybe to you. But you arent the standard for deciding greatness. Its more of a people involved within and industry that decides that.
So lets have a poll shall we?
I say that the majority of people in the game deem Pletcher, Frankel, and Mandella as greats. What say you everyone?

Besides that, you must be an older guy. This game has changed and does not revolve around teh Derby. It revolves around the Breeders Cup. It is taht day that decides champions!!

Originally Posted by oracle80

Maybe to you. But you arent the standard for deciding greatness. Its more of a people involved within and industry that decides that.
So lets have a poll shall we?
I say that the majority of people in the game deem Pletcher, Frankel, and Mandella as greats. What say you everyone?

Besides that, you must be an older guy. This game has changed and does not revolve around teh Derby. It revolves around the Breeders Cup. It is taht day that decides champions!!

They are greats but not immortals. As for the game, it will always revolve around the derby. How many people know Ghostzapper outside of racing? None. Secretariat, Barbaro, Seattle Slew, Affirmed, are all household names because they are derby winners that were great horses. There is not one person in the industry that would rather win a BC Classic than a Derby. Not one.

Originally Posted by Hoisttheflag

They are greats but not immortals. As for the game, it will always revolve around the derby. How many people know Ghostzapper outside of racing? None. Secretariat, Barbaro, Seattle Slew, Affirmed, are all household names because they are derby winners that were great horses. There is not one person in the industry that would rather win a BC Classic than a Derby. Not one.

Frankel would. More cash!!

Originally Posted by oracle80

Frankel would. More cash!!

To this day Frankel loses sleep over Empire Maker. Frankel would trade that Ghostzapper BC Classic for an Empire Maker derby win any day. That guy talked about Empire Maker the day he was born, that is how badly he wants a derby. Until he gets what Baffert has three of he will always be looked at as inferior to Baffert. My friend told me Frankel constantly talks about how he desperately wants to be the first triple crown winner in years.

[Crown@club]

Just a guess, but does this mean Tim Ritchey, Victor Espinoza, John Servis, and Stew Elliot are greater than Frankel, Pletcher and JohnnyV

Right