Sacrifice

Downthestretch55 · #1 01-02-2007, 11:45 PM

The BBC has reported that Bush's new plan, the "surge" will be themed sacrifice. This is the new way forward we've waited for.
Here is Keith Olbermann's commentary.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16442767/

sumitas · #2 01-03-2007, 01:46 PM

We should have supported Saddam. I mean long before Kuwait, past prsidents were ill advised to stop working with him and his secular and in many ways progressive regime. Iraq and Vietnam were the biggest foreign policy blunders in our lifetime. Pathetic.

Gander · #3 01-03-2007, 01:49 PM

The BBC has reported that Bush's new plan, the "surge" will be themed sacrifice

Sacrifice. Sure. As long as its not himself or his income thats being sacrificed. Guy gets 8 hours of sleep a night, you can be sure of it.

sumitas · #4 01-03-2007, 02:09 PM

You are one of the deadened Americans Mr. Olberman referred to.

sumitas · #5 01-03-2007, 02:16 PM

I know, there is a conspiracy at every turn.

What could have been in Iraq if our foregn policy made even the slightest sense for America.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_hussein

Downthestretch55 · #6 01-03-2007, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sumitas

I know, there is a conspiracy at every turn.

What could have been in Iraq if our foregn policy made even the slightest sense for America.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_hussein

Sumitas,
Thanks for posting the link, though I'm sure that some won't take the time to read it. I've previously posted links to explain US involvement in helping him rise to power. Equally ignored.
How dare we provide historical context to address "gut" responses? Perhaps those that don't hear are listening to the same "gut voice" that justifies the insanity. "God told me to do it."
Yeah, right!
Reminds me of a time I tried to talk sense to a guy that was sitting next to me in a bar, after he had threatened to punch me out...and right before he fell off his stool in a drunken stupor.
Ain't no sense anymore.
Let their guts get 'em.

GenuineRisk · #7 01-03-2007, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bababooyee

If you think that Saddam's regime was "progressive", you are an idiot...and worse.

Trace back to the roots of the Baath party to understand my previous comment.

Bababooyee, his regime was both oppressive and progressive. Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis learned to read due to his program against illiteracy, and health care was free in his Iraq. Being a secularist, his Iraq was also the most free nation for women to live in-- they were allowed to have jobs, go to school (which was free), drive, etc. Iraq was the only Arab country whose laws were not dictated by S'haria.

And he was a murderer and a torturer and a tyrant. No question. But I think we Americans want our good guys and our bad guys to be all one or the other, and the fact is, very few people are. The tyrant who gassed Kurds is the same one who built roads and got electricity to places that had never had it before. And a person recognizing that Saddam was a very complicated human being- innovater and tribal thug both- does not mean that person loves him and wants to have a million of his babies. It's just accepting that little in life is simple. Especially people in power. They wouldn't get there if they were.

GenuineRisk · #8 01-03-2007, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bababooyee

Hitler, Stalin, etc. all provided the same public "goods".

I am short on time (be back in 45min or so), so hopefully this quote will make my point clear(er):

"It's a major conceptual breakthrough for anyone, of any political stripe, to realize that advocating central state power for their own purposes is tantamount to advocating that same power in the hands of the enemy."

And I would hardly call Hitler and Stalin simple men, either. Look, if they didn't do some things their population regarded as positive, they wouldn't have been able to hold onto power.

Great quote-- I wonder if the current Republicans are thinking of this quote since the Dems, using the rules the Republicans themselves set up during the past 6 years, are keeping the Republicans out of a lot of decision-making for the first 100 hours of the new Congress. Centralizing power and stifling dissent works great as long as you're the one in power... but the pendalum will usually swing, and a person or a party can find himself or itself hoisted on its own petard.

What the hell is a petard, by the way?

GenuineRisk · #9 01-03-2007, 03:28 PM

"Pendulum," not "pendalum." Frack me.

GenuineRisk · #10 01-03-2007, 03:33 PM

On the theme of sacrifice, here's Christopher Hitchens on Saddam's execution:

http://www.slate.com/id/2156776

In the interests of full disclosure, I can't stand Christopher Hitchens, whom I long considered an apologist for the Bush regime. Which is not to say he doesn't say some smart things. It's a good piece.

GenuineRisk · #11 01-03-2007, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bababooyee

I think it is "retard" and it is Bush in this case.

Bababooyee, you fracking crack me up (twice in one day, and on two different boards, no less!). That's as funny as an email I saw on ballon-juice.com, where someone said about the topic being discussed, "You can find my sympathy between sh*t and syphillis in the dictionary."

GenuineRisk · #12 01-03-2007, 04:15 PM

To the main point of your post though, I think you're right that power in too few hands is dangerous, regardless of the economic system the country follows. One of the reasons the increase in power of the Executive Branch should be a big cause for concern here- no matter to which party the man (or someday, woman) in the White House belongs. Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown, and all that.

Downthestretch55 · #13 01-03-2007, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

To the main point of your post though, I think you're right that power in too few hands is dangerous, regardless of the economic system the country follows. One of the reasons the increase in power of the Executive Branch should be a big cause for concern here- no matter to which party the man (or someday, woman) in the White House belongs. Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown, and all that.

GR,
Please forgive me for only hearing one side of this debate, yours. The other is on "ignore".
I'll just say that it's really not about an economic system. Many have succeeded that didn't hold to ours. Look at China, India...on and on.
The thing that makes our great country a model to the rest of the world is not our economic system, but rather the "balance of powers" as shown in our Constitution. Alas, when one of those branches usurps the powers of the others, that balance no longer exists. It is cause for concern.
It is not only seen by those that believe in the wisdom of the founders, but also by all those outside of our nation, to which we hold a standard, something worthy of trust, something worth sacrificing lives to uphold.
DTS

hoovesupsideyourhead · #14 01-03-2007, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander

The BBC has reported that Bush's new plan, the "surge" will be themed sacrifice

Sacrifice. Sure. As long as its not himself or his income thats being sacrificed. Guy gets 8 hours of sleep a night, you can be sure of it.

wrong....this guy is doing and has done what he thought was good for america...get on board for the big win..on the flip side i will be able to laugh at any simplton the dems endorse...the spin starts here...are guys are getting killed because of slack jawed librals instead of backing the troops they blame the prez...aka w... i cant wait to see the massive troop reductions if a dem wins..it wont happen.....please feel free to argue and call names....count down too dts......5..4..3...2..1

Downthestretch55 · #15 01-03-2007, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

wrong....this guy is doing and has done what he thought was good for america...get on board for the big win..on the flip side i will be able to laugh at any simplton the dems endorse...the spin starts here...are guys are getting killed because of slack jawed librals instead of backing the troops they blame the prez...aka w... i cant wait to see the massive troop reductions if a dem wins..it wont happen.....please feel free to argue and call names....count down too dts......5..4..3...2..1

LOL Hooves.

hoovesupsideyourhead · #16 01-03-2007, 07:19 PM

vote hooves in 07...

Gander · #17 01-03-2007, 07:32 PM

Do you guys realize Rogue Agent makes his 07 debut on Friday at Aqueduct? 1st race.

Danzig · #18 01-03-2007, 08:47 PM

petard--a metal cone filled with explosives, fastened in ancient warfare to gates and walls and exploded to force an opening.

hoist with your own petard--from hamlet--destroyed by the very devices with which one meant to destroy others.

GenuineRisk · #19 01-03-2007, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig188

petard--a metal cone filled with explosives, fastened in ancient warfare to gates and walls and exploded to force an opening.

hoist with your own petard--from hamlet--destroyed by the very devices with which one meant to destroy others.

Thanks, Danzig! Doesn't the word petard sound like something a Renaissance guy would wear as part of his frou-frou outfit, though?

"Prithee, do not kick me there; thou shalt sully my petard."