Cleveland Indians

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Avery_Smartman

God.


Blake has not priced himself out...Blake has not priced himself out.

The Indians signed him to one year.It was their choice...not his. The Indians have priced him out.He shouldn't be there now,but thanks to the Phillips debacle they still keep compounding that huge boneheaded move.

I'm not going to read your reply for a long time because I know it's going to be dumb.


Honest...I can't take you anymore!

Whatever...my point was he ain't playing for them next year. OK??

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

Whatever...my point was he ain't playing for them next year. OK??

No..that was my point.


And it was my point that someone will finally realize they need and have a better defensive player there.

For all your ridiculous mathematical models you have the audacity to agree with me.



I forgot my promise and read your recent mess.









Beyond words.

[Mortimer]

Mr. HorseOffCourse,sir.




You may be interested to know a Plain Dealer writers brief blurb about last nights 9th inning....saying how the implosion featured,among other things, Here'sJhonny waving at more ground balls than a flagman at cars on I-90.

HJ also got his ass sat down tonight.





This from your "at worst an average defensive ss."







Thank you ,Your Doorknobship.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Avery_Smartman

Mr. HorseOffCourse,sir.




You may be interested to know a Plain Dealer writers brief blurb about last nights 9th inning....saying how the implosion featured,among other things, Here'sJhonny waving at more ground balls than a flagman at cars on I-90.

HJ also got his ass sat down tonight.





This from your "at worst an average defensive ss."







Thank you ,Your Doorknobship.

I'm not exactly sure how Jhonny is supposed to make plays on shots by Beltre into the right field seats...but ok, I guess he should get those. But as alwyas, if it's a loss, it's Peralta somehow, someway. Wedge has benched both Cabrera and Peralta at various points this year multiple games. It's meaningless.

If you dont' like analysis, you have no need to read anything I write regarding Cleveland sports. I offer no bombast. I'm sorry. I am not you. Therefore, I offer my opinions, not yours. I again do not see problem with that. I can't understand why you get so upset with what I analyze. I am wrong often, but differeing views are what they are.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Avery_Smartman

No..that was my point.


And it was my point that someone will finally realize they need and have a better defensive player there.

For all your ridiculous mathematical models you have the audacity to agree with me.



I forgot my promise and read your recent mess.









Beyond words.

But again, you really cant' dispute it so you offer bombast once again. Beyond words because it was such an airtight writing you can't really dispute it...so you just say "beyond words". I really find nothing beyond words.

It is quite all right for you to go against the grain on LeBron because you are so enlightened...yet when I go against the grain on Peralta, because it differs from you who in this case agree with the "masses" on Peralta, I am a moron.

Which is it?? You are quite duplicitous sir.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Avery_Smartman

Mr. HorseOffCourse,sir.

You may be interested to know a Plain Dealer writers brief blurb about last nights 9th inning....saying how the implosion featured,among other things, Here'sJhonny waving at more ground balls than a flagman at cars on I-90.

Yet, somehow I read the play by play for the 9th inning and it goes something like...Suzuki singled to 2nd, Lopez singled to RIGHT, Beltre homered to right.

Now if Peralta's range is now expected to get to balls hit to the second baseman and to the right fielder and into the right field seats...you have much higher opinions of Peralta than I do. Much, much higher by far. Now if somehow the implosion was considered 40 minutes later after the Mariners have already broken the tie, your opinions of when games are decided also differs greatly from mine.

[Mortimer]

You may be interested to know a Plain Dealer writers brief blurb about last nights 9th inning....saying how the implosion featured,among other things, Here'sJhonny waving at more ground balls than a flagman at cars on I-90.

[Mortimer]

Poor fielding is poor fielding no matter when it may happen.




And I am among legion who believe him to be a poor fielder.

[Mortimer]

Ah wonder if sitting his ass down last night was a way of rewarding him for fielding excellence?

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Avery_Smartman

Ah wonder if sitting his ass down last night was a way of rewarding him for fielding excellence?

Cabrera has sat down plenty of games this year as well...as I mentioned. That is what Wedge does this year. Garko finally sat two nights ago...Hafner sat last night. In Cabrera's case I would guess it has more to do with him hitting under his weight thus far as opposed to defense...Garko and Hafner as well. No one is really playing well this year batting other than Martinez and Sizemore. I think the sittings have been distributed amongst everyone. I would think you would know that following the team and all...but I guess not.

But again facts don't really matter when you have bombast. I'm guessing despite the Peralta benching last night, Carroll won't be a full time player this year. He is giving both Peralta AND Cabrera nights off now and then when they are struggling as both Peralta AND CAbrera have been doing this year offensively as has the rest of the team minus Martinez and Sizemore.

[Mortimer]

It just so happens Here'sJhonny sat after expressing parting is such sweet sorrow to ground balls.


But of course..that's just a coincidence.

[horseofcourse]

Funny thing about the game Tuesday...Peralta was much worse with the stick than the glove...he came up with a truckload of men on base with one and two outs and nary a clutch hit with DPs etc...he got not one man in. His bat was a much bigger factor in the loss than his glove. I would think following the team and all you would be able to figure these things out. My guess is his sitting last night had much more to do with that than his defense as run scoring has been a much bigger issue this year than defense on the team.

Peralta is not a great player and never was and never will be. He certainly is far from the lone INdian struggling this year on offense however.

[Mortimer]

Well there you go again...as per usual. Bringing in 78 other topics to cover you ineptitude in debating the only one I have been talking about.



He is an abysmal fielder at the most crucial position in fair territory.

You say he is at WORST an acceptable def. ss.



Somehow flagman on I-90 disagree with you.

[horseofcourse]

And again, following the team you should know Peralta is playing becuase of his offense and his potential to hit 25-30 home runs and thinking he should be a .270-.280 hitter. Whether he ever does that, is questionable, but that is the thought by the front office. As I wrote in my post on how much his poor defense really costs them, it ain't much. You think front offices don't crunch these numbers as well??? Jeter is just as bad if not worse than Peralta and yet he still plays and the Yankees are always in post season. Jeter is a .300 plus hitter yearly and is a terrific offensive player. What he does with the bat makes up for his tortoise range. What is Wedge upset about this year?? Horrible at bats...by everyone. Again, that is the struggle. Peralta was the killer Tuesday with men in scoring posiition. Beleive me, WEdge was more upset with his at bats than if he let a random ball get into left field after the game was already blown by Betancourt.

Facts my man. They exist.

[Mortimer]

Now think...how many facts ..true facts....did you just post?

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Avery_Smartman

Well there you go again...as per usual. Bringing in 78 other topics to cover you ineptitude in debating the only one I have been talking about.



He is an abysmal fielder at the most crucial position in fair territory.

You say he is at WORST an acceptable def. ss.



Somehow flagman on I-90 disagree with you.

I debated it thoroughly and you had ZERO response. I brought numbers to justify it. I compared his tortoise range to a SS with excellent range and how much it cost them. It does cost...but not as much as you think. AGain, I bring up Jeter as another bad range SS on a team that wins. Obviously a great range shortstop is not necessary to win in MLB. Obviously, you want a great defensive shortstop, but it does not keep you from winning. I woudl humbly submit to you the INdians did not lose the ALCS becuase Peralta can't field...they lost because their pitching fell apart.

I debated the Peralta defense topic SOLELY and you had no response to any fact I offered.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Avery_Smartman

Now think...how many facts ..true facts....did you just post?

I think the INdias front office expect what I gave offensively from Peralta. It is a fact Peralta had a horrible offensive night Tuesday. It is a fact Jeter does not have any range at all. It is a fact Jeter is a perennial .300 plus hitter and a very good offensive player. It is a fact WEdge is upset by horrible at bats this year...he has stated it after several games. The Yankees have been in postseason 13 straight years I believe?

Pretty much everything stated in that post is an undisputed fact. Other than the fact that I made up what the INdians expect from Peralta offensively. I just estimated what they want. And what I estimated is about right I think.

[Mortimer]

My response has always been the same....he is a poor fielding ss primarily because he has no range and no desire to charge grounders.

You rely on "stats" ( which,by the way , you once told me I shouldn't use because they were useless) that are hung on opinion.......many,many of us knowledgeable people need only to see what he does in the field to have seen more than enough of this klutz.

[horseofcourse]

I would say the post had at least 7 true and indisputable facts in it.

1. Yankees always in postseason
2. Jeter .300 plus hitter
3. Jeter terrific offensive player
4. Wedge upset with horrible at bats this year
5. Peralta had a horrid offensive game Tuesday
6. Tuesday's game already blwon by Betancourt when defensive plays by Peralta made.
7. Jeter has horrid range at shortstop.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Avery_Smartman

My response has always been the same....he is a poor fielding ss primarily because he has no range and no desire to charge grounders.

You rely on "stats" ( which,by the way , you once told me I shouldn't use because they were useless) that are hung on opinion.......many,many of us knowledgeable people need only to see what he does in the field to have seen more than enough of this klutz.

That's fine. But what does it really cost them?? I actually made the effort to quantify what his poor defense costs them. I'm sure teams do this. What his "poor" defense costs them is minimal at most. He makes the routine plays and turns the DP. Stats are what they are. Opinion has not much to do with it. I forget which stats I told you were useless.

In the end, our little debates get heated and I probably spout ridiculous things at times, but I honestly try to defend my opinions. You honestly know your stuff quite well, but I do too. Though I disagree overall about Peralta and LeBron you have good points about both...but I think you take it way too far in your criticisms.

I try to hang in thee with you to no avail but the effort is always there. LeBron made some mistakes last night without question.