Lava Man---California Is His Home - Page 3

2Hot4TV · #41 03-04-2007, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

It makes no sense to take Lava Man to Dubai... the horse evidentally does NOT travel well, so why ruin him by doing it? He's a really nice horse... I just don't think it's worth it taking him all the way over there and ruining him.

Totally agree that they should stay home and move to the turf to keep some weight off. We all know that Lava Man is a STALL RACER and untill they find a way for him to relax in new surroundings the result will be the same. Traveling to Dubai has put the stops to alot of good horses, seems to take 6 months or longer to get back to good form.

#42 03-04-2007, 11:26 PM

This horse is good for racing.
1 million dollar race should have brought all the great invaders from the east dont ya think?

I will say it would have been more impressive carrying 128 lbs though.

Has anyone ever hauled a horse in a trailer? Its not something most of them relish. So getting on a plane is just pure bliss? Some horses also hate unfamiliar surroundings. His connections have alluded to this probable problem.Its not like packing your dog in plastic carrier.

boswd · #43 03-05-2007, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

My suspicion has generally been that it has to do with humidity. That is the biggest difference in running conditions between East/Midwest and West. Horses in general prefer lower humidity conditions; the only population of true wild horses was found near the Gobi Desert, after all. The escaped wild horse population in North America stayed pretty much in the low humidity high plains and intermountain regions - they didn't spread to the humid river valleys of the south and Midwest, although they had plenty of time to do so. Human intervention, by taking horses to more humid places (like the British Isles!), has selected for those horses that can tolerate more humidity in the air they breath, but the species preference still unlies these manipulated genes and can come to the fore.

It's not humid in Ky on BC Day. I truley think he can compete but he does seem to have trouble shipping and getting acculmated to this difference surfaces in a short period of time. If they were to bring him out East and leave him here for the spring and summer Stake races, I think he would be incrediable.

boswd · #44 03-05-2007, 01:58 PM

I posted this on another forum. What do you guys think if you owned Lava Man?

What would you do if you owned him? Would you

1. Keep him in Cali, since there doesn't seem to be, as of yet, any horse out there who is in the same league as him and just win every major stake in SoCal same as last year.

2. Put him on a full time grass schedule and go after the Arlington Million and Turf Classic. Again has nothing else to prove on dirt in So Cal.

3. Ship him out East for the remaining of the year. Sounds weird but, He obvioulsy has nothing to prove out in Cali, is head and shoulders above the rest. If he ships and stays out East he can put to rest the notion that he can't win outside the state and if he wins some big East Coast races, Stephen Foster, The Whitney etc. he would go down in history as one of the best. Not just a great horse but can't win outside his home state. But one of the ALL TIME GREATS!!!!!!

Sightseek · #45 03-05-2007, 08:17 PM

DRF reported that O'neil has been in contact with Churchill Downs on possibly getting Lava Man into the field for the Woodford Reserve if he doesn't go to Dubai.

Left Bank · #46 03-05-2007, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek

DRF reported that O'neil has been in contact with Churchill Downs on possibly getting Lava Man into the field for the Woodford Reserve if he doesn't go to Dubai.

I will make the call right now that if he goes to either,he will get his ASS KICKED!!!

Sightseek · #47 03-05-2007, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimmeastar

I will make the call right now that if he goes to either,he will get his ASS KICKED!!!

I agree, but at least they haven't given up hope of him winning outside Cali.

TitanSooner · #48 03-06-2007, 01:03 AM

I would love to see him ship and run on turf.. He just seems all sorts of comfortable on the grass. Maybe it's the "painted asphalt" out here, but who knows. Maybe he'll fare better than he has in his "shipped dirt" attempts.

Certainly he hasn't won when he has bent sent outside of CA, but it hasn't seemed to hurt him in the long run. I'd rather see him go to the Woodford Reserve than see him get crushed in the desert and have him out until the later part of the year, or even later.

pointman · #49 03-06-2007, 01:10 AM

I haven't looked at Lava Man's PP's in a while, but if I remember correctly, I don't think it has anything to do with shipping, but that he races his best when he is in a state where he can get bute. When he doesn't get bute, don't bet him.

Dunbar · #50 03-06-2007, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pointman

I haven't looked at Lava Man's PP's in a while, but if I remember correctly, I don't think it has anything to do with shipping, but that he races his best when he is in a state where he can get bute. When he doesn't get bute, don't bet him.

Your 2nd post and already making the drug accusation. It must be great to be able to distinguish between a shipping problem and drug dependency so clearly.

Thank heaven for the ignore function.

--Dunbar

Cajungator26 · #51 03-06-2007, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pointman

I haven't looked at Lava Man's PP's in a while, but if I remember correctly, I don't think it has anything to do with shipping, but that he races his best when he is in a state where he can get bute. When he doesn't get bute, don't bet him.

The rules are the same regarding bute. We've discussed this a hundred times... look it up.

pointman · #52 03-06-2007, 12:00 PM

Dunbar, you must be the all knowing expert to have the gumption to trash a new person to the site so quickly. I did not profess to know all the rules, just noticed in the program when he does not have a "LB" next to his line he does not do as well and that happens when he is outside of California. If you paid attention I hedged on what I said to see if people with more knowledge than I about this sport could shed more light on what I noticed. I do not profess to be all knowing, I have an intense job and cannot spend all day learning the ins and outs of the business. Hopefully I will not offend your sense of knowledge on what I post in the future. That is if I care.

#53 03-06-2007, 01:09 PM

Ok. This whole bute thing is a mystery to me so I just did some research. Both the Kentucky and California Horse Racing Rules seem to be the same on bute: You can give it but it must be given no later than 24 hours before post time. Even the dosage amount seems the same. You can find the drug rules in each state by doing a google search for "Drug Medication Rules CHRB" and "Kentucky Horse Racing Drug Rules." Apparently, the PP's do not always reflect Bute as a "B" after the "L" unless the rules in that particular jurisdiction require it to be posted. For example, you can have bute in New York, but the deadline to administer is 48 hours prior to post time. So the absence of a "B" in a pp doesn't mean that "B" is absent. Or am I totally missing something?

SniperSB23 · #54 03-06-2007, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FairPlay

Ok. This whole bute thing is a mystery to me so I just did some research. Both the Kentucky and California Horse Racing Rules seem to be the same on bute: You can give it but it must be given no later than 24 hours before post time. Even the dosage amount seems the same. You can find the drug rules in each state by doing a google search for "Drug Medication Rules CHRB" and "Kentucky Horse Racing Drug Rules." Apparently, the PP's do not always reflect Bute as a "B" after the "L" unless the rules in that particular jurisdiction require it to be posted. For example, you can have bute in New York, but the deadline to administer is 48 hours prior to post time. So the absence of a "B" in a pp doesn't mean that "B" is absent. Or am I totally missing something?

It is a question I would really like the Daily Racing Form to address. If the absence of B doesn't mean Bute wasn't used then why the heck are they wasting a column in the Form to give out misinformation? If there is a difference between when a B is posted and when it isn't then what is the explanation for it?

pointman · #55 03-06-2007, 01:22 PM

Thank you, Fair Play. An intelligent response. This is the kind of education that I believe I can get on this web site. I can't figure it out, but I assumed that the there is a reason why DRF puts an "L" as opposed to an "LB" in the program. Just a general assumption there must be a reason for the difference. This is an issue I would like to explore more. However, the all knowing Dumbar has figured it all out, with his 8 months more of experience on this web site, everyone is too scared of Lava Man in California and there are no quality handicap horses willing to come challenge him. Like Invasor and Discreet Cat are ducking Lava Man!

#56 03-06-2007, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pointman

Thank you, Fair Play. An intelligent response. This is the kind of education that I believe I can get on this web site. I can't figure it out, but I assumed that the there is a reason why DRF puts an "L" as opposed to an "LB" in the program. Just a general assumption there must be a reason for the difference. This is an issue I would like to explore more. However, the all knowing Dumbar has figured it all out, with his 8 months more of experience on this web site, everyone is too scared of Lava Man in California and there are no quality handicap horses willing to come challenge him. Like Invasor and Discreet Cat are ducking Lava Man!

Thanks for the kind words. I do think, however, that a case can be made that certain horses are avoiding facing Lava Man on his own turf. There must be a reason why east coast based horses would run for smaller purses in Florida and New Yorkthan take-on Lava Man on the west coast. They had a million reasons to show up on Saturday, but they didn't. Would Lava Man beat Invasor straight up in California? Who knows? The only thing that I'd guess is that Lava Man would beat Invasor straight up in California running on the turf! Welcome to the site and hope that you have a pleasant experience here.

LARHAGE · #57 03-06-2007, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pointman

Dunbar, you must be the all knowing expert to have the gumption to trash a new person to the site so quickly. I did not profess to know all the rules, just noticed in the program when he does not have a "LB" next to his line he does not do as well and that happens when he is outside of California. If you paid attention I hedged on what I said to see if people with more knowledge than I about this sport could shed more light on what I noticed. I do not profess to be all knowing, I have an intense job and cannot spend all day learning the ins and outs of the business. Hopefully I will not offend your sense of knowledge on what I post in the future. That is if I care.

Lava Man is a bad shipper, he weaves and stall walks and generally doesn't enjoy the traveling. There are a LOT of horses like that, it's just a quirk some get, it has no bearing on his lack of talent outside the Sunshine State, traveling by van for an hour is vastly different than going on an airplane and traveling for hours, it's just an unfortunate part of Lava Man's personality. Bute is allowed in every track in America and is as potent as an aspirin is for people, hardly a performance enhancing crutch.

Cajungator26 · #58 03-06-2007, 02:02 PM

From what I understand (and someone please correct me if I'm mistaken), bute is administered the same in Kentucky as it is in California, but it is not marked in the PP's like it is in California.

#59 03-06-2007, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

From what I understand (and someone please correct me if I'm mistaken), bute is administered the same in Kentucky as it is in California, but it is not marked in the PP's like it is in California.

That's what I said a few posts up :-)

Thanks for confirming my understanding.

pointman · #60 03-06-2007, 03:14 PM

Fair Play, thank you for the welcome. I appreciate that there are people on the site, I'm sure the vast majority, that don't come after newcomers like bullies. My guess is that east coast horses like Invasor and Discreet Cat are not looking for the big races this time of year, but are resting up for the big races on the east coast in the summer and fall. Of course, there is plenty of money on the east coast in that time period such that there is no need to ship out west. I still have to think there is a reason why DRF codes the medication in that way and there must be difference between the two. Hopefully someone knows that difference.