Ravel, How good is he ? - Page 3

SniperSB23 · #41 03-20-2007, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

That much I agree with. What I was thinking was that they ship Ravel somewhere else and take a shot at that race with their best horse.

Because the Santa Anita Derby is going to be the G1 that Ravel has the best chance to win.

blackthroatedwind · #42 03-20-2007, 08:14 PM

She gains very little for them by winning the Santa Anita Derby. Plus, it looks like the weakest prep, so therefore it suits their plans for Ravel quite well. If he were to somehow win that race he has already done enough for them in all likelihood.

Remember, they just retired their best 3YO in Europe.

King Glorious · #43 03-20-2007, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

As I explained over there getting a G1 on Ravel's stallion resume is worth way more to them than having the best chance of winning the race. If Ravel ran second to Rags in the SA Derby they would have made a huge mistake in terms of his stallion resume which is all Coolmore cares about. I don't particularly like Ravel either, I just thought the idea that he was going to have to step up to beat Rags because he was only a G3 winner and she was a G1 winner was ridiculous. I think she would have to improve to have a shot in the SA Derby which she is surely capable of but is far from a given.

If the choice was running the two of them against each other, I would agree with u. But if they are only going to run one, run the best one. Send Ravel somewhere else.

I agree with u that it's ridiculous to say he'd have to step up because he's only a grade three winner and she's a grade one winner. He'd be a grade one winner if he could have faced the fields she faced too. I think he'd have to step up and improve simply because he's not as good as her. I don't think she'd have to improve to win the SA Derby though.

King Glorious · #44 03-20-2007, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Because the Santa Anita Derby is going to be the G1 that Ravel has the best chance to win.

I don't know about that. I don't know what the Wood and the Blue Grass fields will look like. Sightseek says they are loaded but I just don't see that at all.

SniperSB23 · #45 03-20-2007, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I don't know about that. I don't know what the Wood and the Blue Grass fields will look like. Sightseek says they are loaded but I just don't see that at all.

The Wood won't be fantastic but they are already looking to get another G1 for Circular Quay in that one to be able to add "Grade 1 winner at 2 and 3" to the stallion ad plus there is Nobiz to Shobiz that is still scaring some trainers off. The Blue Grass is loaded including Street Sense, Great Hunter, Ketchikan, Belgravia, Any Given Saturday, and Twilight Meteor. All but Ketchikan are proven on the poly as well while Ravel isn't.

Sightseek · #46 03-20-2007, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I don't know about that. I don't know what the Wood and the Blue Grass fields will look like. Sightseek says they are loaded but I just don't see that at all.

You've got Circular Quay in the Wood (and Nobiz if the blinks help) and Street Sense & Any Given Saturday in the Bluegrass, do you think he can beat them?

Sightseek · #47 03-20-2007, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

The Wood won't be fantastic but they are already looking to get another G1 for Circular Quay in that one to be able to add "Grade 1 winner at 2 and 3" to the stallion ad plus there is Nobiz to Shobiz that is still scaring some trainers off. The Blue Grass is loaded including Street Sense, Great Hunter, Ketchikan, Belgravia, Any Given Saturday, and Twilight Meteor. All but Ketchikan are proven on the poly as well while Ravel isn't.

Twilight Meteor is doing both the Lane's End & Bluegrass?

King Glorious · #48 03-20-2007, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek

You've got Circular Quay in the Wood (and Nobiz if the blinks help) and Street Sense & Any Given Saturday in the Bluegrass, do you think he can beat them?

I don't think he can beat CQ. I do think that Street Sense and AGS are ripe for the taking in their next though. Ketchikan is not a threat, Belgravia hasn't run since he was born and I've never heard of Twilight Meteor. But with the change in surface, perhaps it is best to keep him here and run in the SA Derby. It probably will be the easiest of the races. It's just going to be a shame when they hold Rags out and run Ravel and he loses and they don't win the race at all.

SniperSB23 · #49 03-20-2007, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Twilight Meteor is doing both the Lane's End & Bluegrass?

Assuming he runs well in the Lane's End that was their plan.

Sightseek · #50 03-20-2007, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Assuming he runs well in the Lane's End that was their plan.

LOL, glad you shared this tid-bit now....all's fair in love and TVG Fantasy!

SniperSB23 · #51 03-20-2007, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I don't think he can beat CQ. I do think that Street Sense and AGS are ripe for the taking in their next though. Ketchikan is not a threat, Belgravia hasn't run since he was born and I've never heard of Twilight Meteor. But with the change in surface, perhaps it is best to keep him here and run in the SA Derby. It probably will be the easiest of the races. It's just going to be a shame when they hold Rags out and run Ravel and he loses and they don't win the race at all.

He's the best 3yo turf horse and will be running on the polytrack at Keeneland. Does that tell you all you need to know?

King Glorious · #52 03-20-2007, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

He's the best 3yo turf horse and will be running on the polytrack at Keeneland. Does that tell you all you need to know?

If he's a turf horse, that tells me he'll take to the track. But I still don't know anything about him. Never heard of him. I'll need to check on him.

Mortimer · #53 03-20-2007, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

If he's a turf horse, that tells me he'll take to the track. But I still don't know anything about him. Never heard of him. I'll need to check on him.

I like that progressive logic you used in your post.

I associate it with that great rythmic line....

...There's an arrow in my arm.

That tells me there's an arrow in my arm.

I don't like it..

...and it hurts.

I'm going to take it out.

SniperSB23 · #54 03-20-2007, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

If he's a turf horse, that tells me he'll take to the track. But I still don't know anything about him. Never heard of him. I'll need to check on him.

Pletcher horse, won the off the turf/onto the poly $125K Bourbon at Keeneland last year and then the $100K Hallandale Beach race on 2/24.

POINTGIVEN1985 · #55 03-20-2007, 08:44 PM

Even though i belive ravel is overated and is coming out of a bad race, i still think he'd beat rags to riches at this point, she is very talented and has every right to improve but i think ravel would beat her

blackthroatedwind · #56 03-20-2007, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

He's the best 3yo turf horse and will be running on the polytrack at Keeneland. Does that tell you all you need to know?

" The best 3YO turf horse " is not exactly a ringing endorsement at this point...not that you in any way suggested it was.

If he wins the Bluegrass it will immediately establish it as the most meaningless prep in history ( and, as we have both posted the same things throughout this thread, you probably will agree ).

King Glorious · #57 03-20-2007, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

" The best 3YO turf horse " is not exactly a ringing endorsement at this point...not that you in any way suggested it was.

If he wins the Bluegrass it will immediately establish it as the most meaningless prep in history ( and, as we have both posted the same things throughout this thread, you probably will agree ).

I'll agree too. And it's only going to get worse when grass horses start winning "dirt" races on a regular.

blackthroatedwind · #58 03-20-2007, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I'll agree too. And it's only going to get worse when grass horses start winning "dirt" races on a regular.

It's a problem.

Personally I am sick about the polytrack at Keeneland, as I loved attacking that Spring meet in the past, and have done OK over the years. Now I am totally at sea and cannot bet money on anything but the turf races with any conviction. I guess I should at least try and educate myself.

It's a Yeoman's task.

SniperSB23 · #59 03-20-2007, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

" The best 3YO turf horse " is not exactly a ringing endorsement at this point...not that you in any way suggested it was.

If he wins the Bluegrass it will immediately establish it as the most meaningless prep in history ( and, as we have both posted the same things throughout this thread, you probably will agree ).

I was actually looking through the brisnet PPs of all the contenders to see which had high turf pedigree figures because of how little there is to the 3yo turf division right now. The couple that jumped out to me that haven't run on the turf yet were Hard Spun and Boogie Boggs. You might have to let Nick know there is a lot of money to be won on the turf this summer with Boogie Boggs (although I'm sure he is aware).

If Twilight Meteor and Belgravia were to run well enough in the Lane's End/Blue Grass to get the graded earnings we could have two horses making their first dirt start in the Kentucky Derby. So yeah, the Blue Grass being on poly is not only becoming a meaningless Derby prep but is also making capping extremely difficult for the Derby. Fortunately we have Kentuckyrosesinmay on here to let us know how the horses move over the dirt so we'll be all set.

Also, wasn't the Blue Grass already the most meaningless Derby prep? Don't horses who ran poorly in it previously have much better success in the Derby than the ones who won it?

POINTGIVEN1985 · #60 03-20-2007, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I'll agree too. And it's only going to get worse when grass horses start winning "dirt" races on a regular.

biancone has very nice 3 yr turf horse.... the name is, well i forgot the name but he ran Nov, 25 on that stars of tommorw card that churchill ran, he actually beat a pletcher horse and it might have been Twilight Meteor.