Kidnapped British Soldiers

[sham]

I find it very alarming how fast the British sailors caved in this situation. Apparently they were captured without firing a shot in self defense, and then were on TV the next day giving a briefing apologizing for their shameful transgressions against poor Iran. I guess soldiering has changed since the days that I served in uniform. We were trained to give name, rank and serial number and that's all. Those of you that have served know what I'm talking about.

[SentToStud]

I rhink the Iranians come out way on top here. They could not care less about what the US or Britain think. They only care about how they're portrayed in Damascus, Amman, Beirut, Riyadh, Baghdad and TelAviv.

People in the U.S. don't really have a sense of history. The Iranians for years were seen by Britain as only a strategic area they sought to colonize for the sole purpose of serving as a midpoint and military base to protect the Empire's crown jewel -- India.

I don't care for Iranian politics but when I read comments made by Americans that the world will be better off when Tehran is blown to bits, I'm really disappointed. The media and population of the U.S. just has no sense of the history of the region, which is tremendously important in Arab culture.

It's simply unbelieveable that the American people believe instantly and fully that certain cultures/nations are pure enemies to be dealt with militarily simply because politicians say it's so.

Americans react to world news sort of the same way a cat jumps at the wall when you shine a flashlight on it. Move a light to another spot on the wall and the cat will jump there next.

Originally Posted by SentToStud

I don't care for Iranian politics but when I read comments made by Americans that the world will be better off when Tehran is blown to bits, I'm really disappointed. The media and population of the U.S. just has no sense of the history of the region, which is tremendously important in Arab culture.

Iran is a Persian country, not Arab. They will tell you there is a huge difference. This is a shaky regime. Iran has a whole bunch more in common with the West than many of the Arab countries. This is a country that could move away from a fanatical Islamic power base very quickly. Lots of the young intelligensia dont buy into many of the governments institutions. We would be stupid to try anything militarily with things so likely to swing on their own given the demographic dynamics of this country.

The dialogue with economic pressure is the best way. It is also in our interest to exchange students on a large scale like we used to with them. Especially those interested in politics. A lot of new ideas and ways of thinking used to be infused through student exchanges. This is part of the reason that they do have a significant portion of their population that has a pro-Western attitude... Democracy, rule of law, individual rights, etc...

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Iran is a Persian country, not Arab. They will tell you there is a huge difference. This is a shaky regime. Iran has a whole bunch more in common with the West than many of the Arab countries. This is a country that could move away from a fanatical Islamic power base very quickly. Lots of the young intelligensia dont buy into many of the governments institutions. We would be stupid to try anything militarily with things so likely to swing on their own given the demographic dynamics of this country.

The dialogue with economic pressure is the best way. It is also in our interest to exchange students on a large scale like we used to with them. Especially those interested in politics. A lot of new ideas and ways of thinking used to be infused through student exchanges. This is part of the reason that they do have a significant portion of their population that has a pro-Western attitude... Democracy, rule of law, individual rights, etc...

I think Iran USED to be as pro-west as you suggest. Not any longer. The British got greedy with how the ran the Anglo-Iranian Oil Corp., and this led directly to the nationalization of the Iranian oil industry.

Then the U.S. CIA and Britain ran a little covert op called Operation Ajax aimed to returning the Shah to power. It failed miserably and fueled Iranian anti-West sentiment. Eventually the Shah did return to power but of course only as a dictator/shill for the clerics. He didn't last long.

Then there was the the USS Vincennes shooting down of an Iranian flight over Iran airspace that killed 250 people. This event preceded the Hostage crisis by about six months.

Shaky regime? Yes, but there are reasons for the anti-West sentiment that pervades Iran. And not all of them are poorly formed.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

I think Iran USED to be as pro-west as you suggest. Not any longer. The British got greedy with how the ran the Anglo-Iranian Oil Corp., and this led directly to the nationalization of the Iranian oil industry.

Then the U.S. CIA and Britain ran a little covert op called Operation Ajax aimed to returning the Shah to power. It failed miserably and fueled Iranian anti-West sentiment. Eventually the Shah did return to power but of course only as a dictator/shill for the clerics. He didn't last long.

Then there was the the USS Vincennes shooting down of an Iranian flight over Iran airspace that killed 250 people. This event preceded the Hostage crisis by about six months.

Shaky regime? Yes, but there are reasons for the anti-West sentiment that pervades Iran. And not all of them are poorly formed.

there are pro-west elements in iran. but right now others are leading the parade. i can't help wondering tho, based on what irans prez (can't spell his name, not gonna try--yet i can pronounce it, go figure!) said the other day, that the possibility of more dialogue with the west is part of what got the hostages freed. i think he's interested-or maybe just pandering, so that he will get the pro-west folks in iran off his back. he said he wants relations with all countries-except israel of course.

[Mortimer]

I'm waiting for your impression of "It".

Originally Posted by mortimerdexterfoxworthy

I'm waiting for your impression of "It".

Morty you are like a young child that wanders into the middle of discussion drooling asking where your candy went. So what do you think about Iran Morton?

Originally Posted by SentToStud

I think Iran USED to be as pro-west as you suggest. Not any longer. The British got greedy with how the ran the Anglo-Iranian Oil Corp., and this led directly to the nationalization of the Iranian oil industry.

Then the U.S. CIA and Britain ran a little covert op called Operation Ajax aimed to returning the Shah to power. It failed miserably and fueled Iranian anti-West sentiment. Eventually the Shah did return to power but of course only as a dictator/shill for the clerics. He didn't last long.

Then there was the the USS Vincennes shooting down of an Iranian flight over Iran airspace that killed 250 people. This event preceded the Hostage crisis by about six months.

Shaky regime? Yes, but there are reasons for the anti-West sentiment that pervades Iran. And not all of them are poorly formed.

I think the anti-west sentiments involve perceived imperialism. I believe that a good percentage of younger folks believe in the rule of law, individual rights (women included), a democratic process... these are Western ideas based on Judeo-Christian beliefs. I happen to like them. I think others do also. Even without a long history involving this belief system.

[hi_im_god]

"People in the U.S. don't really have a sense of history"

history doesn't matter. we're an empire. we create new history. plus there's american idol when things don't look so good.

"I don't care for Iranian politics but when I read comments made by Americans that the world will be better off when Tehran is blown to bits, I'm really disappointed. The media and population of the U.S. just has no sense of the history of the region, which is tremendously important in Arab culture."

this is old europe thinking. you should join the new europe. that's poland so far as i can tell.

"It's simply unbelieveable that the American people believe instantly and fully that certain cultures/nations are pure enemies to be dealt with militarily simply because politicians say it's so."

i live here. trust me. the politician's got elected by homer simpson. it isn't that they are misleading the populace. it's that they can't get elected otherwise. you are way too optimistic.

"Americans react to world news sort of the same way a cat jumps at the wall when you shine a flashlight on it. Move a light to another spot on the wall and the cat will jump there next."

just wait until the next terrorist attack. we'll elect hitler.

[hi_im_god]

on the other hand...

let's just drop humiliating cartoon's on them.

we aren't the only one's too stupid to be believed. plus that line got no play earlier.

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Morty you are like a young child that wanders into the middle of discussion drooling asking where your candy went. So what do you think about Iran Morton?

And if I am?





I think Iran is there.

And we are here.

Just like France is there.

What I or you think won't make them move.

Originally Posted by mortimerdexterfoxworthy

And if I am?

What I or you think won't make them move.

No Morton Land masses actually do move, on the plates they now lay on. See INdia smashing into Asia creating the Himalyas.

We are not discussing people moving. We are discussing how people get along with one another Morton. Interaction among countries, foreign affairs...

So because you keep up, give us your take. Show us that there is more to Morton than skipping large spaces on his posts... And otherwise typing pure silliness much worse than what I have ever accomplished.

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by pgardn

No Morton Land masses actually do move, on the plates they now lay on. See INdia smashing into Asia creating the Himalyas.

We are not discussing people moving. We are discussing how people get along with one another Morton. Interaction among countries, foreign affairs...

So because you keep up, give us your take. Show us that there is more to Morton than skipping large spaces on his posts... And otherwise typing pure silliness much worse than what I have ever accomplished.

Don't sell yourself so short.

I think you're best putting me on ignore.

I don't think you quite follow.



It certainly is fine with me if you feel better about yourself by pounding away at world affairs and continental drift.

That's great.


But I,like maybe just a few others,really don't need the false sense of self worth to lay down my brilliant insights regarding the major issues of the world.Now not everyone would fall under that description,but I think you do. Could be wrong.


So if it stimulates your ego to call me out,as it were,on the challenging issue regarding Irans mind boggling hiddden agenda relative to its place in the world then good for you.

You may even find your Clark Bar in this mess.

[Mortimer]

I'm going to skip the continuing dialogue here because it's pretty obvious I bug the hell out of you.

So you type your tripe.




But you have to be honest with yourself.

That's the part I really like...because I know you know what I mean.

Originally Posted by mortimerdexterfoxworthy

Don't sell yourself so short.

I think you're best putting me on ignore.

I don't think you quite follow.



It certainly is fine with me if you feel better about yourself by pounding away at world affairs and continental drift.

That's great.


But I,like maybe just a few others,really don't need the false sense of self worth to lay down my brilliant insights regarding the major issues of the world.Now not everyone would fall under that description,but I think you do. Could be wrong.


So if it stimulates your ego to call me out,as it were,on the challenging issue regarding Irans mind boggling hiddden agenda relative to its place in the world then good for you.

You may even find your Clark Bar in this mess.

You see Morton its a question about learning by stating an opinion based on what one has read. Then you read others thoughts. And sometimes one finds out something they did not consider. You entered a post about Iran. You did not have to do so, but you thought it would be interesting to interject your silliness. So join the fun and give your opinion based on what you have read.

We all get on a board like this for diff. reasons. Mine is to make statements which people respond to and in that way I might become better informed, and occassionally act silly... your reason for posting is...

Im way too old for ego. I know pretty much who I am. Curious. So please feel free to put up a site where you found some interesting reading on Iran. You have noticed people do that.

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by Danzig

that incident has ticked me off more than any of the rest-esp that they singled out the woman of the bunch, and she was forced to sit and speak so kindly of her captors--in a nutshell, that is what they are. it's outrageous!

truly, the worst part is knowing that this group was taken so easily, no fight back, not a shot fired. the commanding officer should be removed from his post. whoever makes their policy really and truly needs to re-think their rules of engagement!!

Do you enjoy Ayn Rand...darling?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by mortimerdexterfoxworthy

Do you enjoy Ayn Rand...darling?

haven't read any Rand...sweetie. do you recommend?

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by Danzig

haven't read any Rand...sweetie. do you recommend?

Uh well....Atlas Shrugged was really great....for about 900 pages.


Then I got really upset with her because she was dragging it out so I stopped.

The Fountainhead I have....but won't start it until I get up enough nerve to finish the other one.

I would highly recommend the first 900 pages of AS...though.


Kissy-poo,
Mortimer

[Danzig]

i'll add those to my wish list. had considered reading them but so many books to read, so little time.
currently reading the last full measure.

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i'll add those to my wish list. had considered reading them but so many books to read, so little time.
currently reading the last full measure.

( No kissy-poo....phooey)



Delightful.