Nobiz Like Showbiz

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by POINTGIVEN1985

it's not just the loss, its the way he lost, maybe the street sense race took to much out of him, if they run him back in the derby in 4 weeks they could ruin the horse, it happens every year.

so should street sense skip the bluegrass? if he runs there, would running in the derby ruin him? i sincerely doubt that running in the tampa bay, the wood, and then the derby is going to 'ruin' any horse. providing he's healthy of course.
certainly, empire maker wasn't 'ruined' by running on a bad foot in the derby, where he finished second, and then running back in the 12f belmont. the only thing that cut his career short was his sire being unbridled!

[MLC]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

OK, so the Tampa Race wasn't a good race. OK....at least now I know what you are saying. I also think what you are saying is wrong. I cannot imagine how anyone could think today's performance by Any Given Saturday was at all comparable to his previous effort.

I agree. I don't pretend to know as much as most of you, but it appeared to me that AGS was a tired horse; definately not the same as the horse that battled SS to the wire in Tampa. I did like Nobiz' performance however.

[ateamstupid]

Any Given Saturday was wide as hell today, and it wasn't like he was beaten a mile, so I wouldn't toss him from the Derby.

[POINTGIVEN1985]

Originally Posted by Danzig

so should street sense skip the bluegrass? if he runs there, would running in the derby ruin him? i sincerely doubt that running in the tampa bay, the wood, and then the derby is going to 'ruin' any horse. providing he's healthy of course.
certainly, empire maker wasn't 'ruined' by running on a bad foot in the derby, where he finished second, and then running back in the 12f belmont. the only thing that cut his career short was his sire being unbridled!

its different street sense like nobiz is simply better then any given saturday, a better horse, more talented whatever you want to call it

[Danzig]

i just wish i knew the riders orders for today...if you can finish third, do so...is that what was said? don't kill the horse for the win? or was it a bad race on his part?
either way, i'd toss other horses i saw today, win or lose, before tossing AGS.

[POINTGIVEN1985]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Andy, can you settle the debate on Corinthian vs. Magna Grad in the Corinthian thread? B/c I seem to be the only one thinking the Corin crowd feeling he would beat him "8 out of 10 times" and is a "much better horse" than Magna Graduate are on some serious drugs.

i switched that to 6.8/10, alot of other ppl also agree that corinthian is alot better to

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by POINTGIVEN1985

its different street sense like nobiz is simply better then any given saturday, a better horse, more talented whatever you want to call it

i disagree.

i thought any given saturday looked better than SS in the tampa race. altho he lost today, this race does not in any way tell me that nobiz was the better horse. i'd be surprised if nobiz hit the board come may 5.

[JJP]

AGS does bring back some memories of Bluegrass Cat: A Pletcher runner who run big at Tampa, then throw a poor race in his final Derby prep. BC ended up running 2nd at a big price. I'm sure AGS will not be as big a price as Bluegrass Cat was last year, but there will be many off the bandwagon (probably rightfully so) but at 15-1 or so he could be a longshot to spice up the exactas and/or tris.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Andy, can you settle the debate on Corinthian vs. Magna Grad in the Corinthian thread? B/c I seem to be the only one thinking the Corin crowd feeling he would beat him "8 out of 10 times" and is a "much better horse" than Magna Graduate are on some serious drugs.

I don't have an opinion other than realism and Corinthian have rarely gone hand in hand. He did run one very nice race in Florida, and another OK one, but he has still been WAY overhyped considering what he has delivered. I'm no great fan of Magna Graduate, and didn't like him at all today, but he has certainly accomplished a LOT more than Corinthian ( though he has also had more chances ), and nothing about Corinthian's actual on-track performances indicate that he is a better horse than Magna Graduate...much less as much better as beating him 8 out of 10 times would suggest.

But hey, there's a thread here right now which lists Tiago as a top five Derby contender, so reality and posting seem to be two seperate issues in more than one place.

[MLC]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i disagree.

i thought any given saturday looked better than SS in the tampa race. altho he lost today, this race does not in any way tell me that nobiz was the better horse. i'd be surprised if nobiz hit the board come may 5.

I agree. As much as I like Nobiz, he still may have some issues with the size of the derby crowd.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by MLC

I agree. I don't pretend to know as much as most of you, but it appeared to me that AGS was a tired horse; definately not the same as the horse that battled SS to the wire in Tampa. I did like Nobiz' performance however.

My problem with Nobiz is the final time was so slow. However, from a race dynamics standpoint, he ran very well. Look how poorly the other two horses involved in the pace did, as well as Any Given Saturday who was stalking, and add to that the so far unproven Sightseeing who finished second while clearly taking advantage of the pace, and it's hard NOT to say Nobiz ran well. But, the final time takes a lot of that away.

It's a double edged sword.

[golfer]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I don't have an opinion other than realism and Corinthian have rarely gone hand in hand. He did run one very nice race in Florida, and another OK one, but he has still been WAY overhyped considering what he has delivered. I'm no great fan of Magna Graduate, and didn't like him at all today, but he has certainly accomplished a LOT more than Corinthian ( though he has also had more chances ), and nothing about Corinthian's actual on-track performances indicate that he is a better horse than Magna Graduate...much less as much better as beating him 8 out of 10 times would suggest.

But hey, there's a thread here right now which lists Tiago as a top five Derby contender, so reality and posting seem to be two seperate issues in more than one place.

Did you see the head on view of the start? Am I nuts in thinking the assistant starter still had a hold of him when the gate opened, which caused him to jump? (By the way, this has nothing to do with whether or not he's better than Magna Grad).

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by golfer

Did you see the head on view of the start? Am I nuts in thinking the assistant starter still had a hold of him when the gate opened, which caused him to jump? (By the way, this has nothing to do with whether or not he's better than Magna Grad).

I didn't watch it carefully, but will try to later, so for now it wouldn't be at all fair for me to have any opinion.

[golfer]

By the way, the horse who ran second to AGS in his first Tampa start, All I Can Get, ran in a 7 furlong minor stakes race today, went 47 to the half, and spit the bit. Not judging the relevance, just reporting the facts (Yes, I bet on this piece also , I had a tough day )

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by cmfhb411

And who was that stupid little girl who asked Velazquez to tell everyone who his Derby mount would be less than 10 seconds after he dismounts from AGS ?

Did she really think he was giving her an answer ?

He doesn't even know, though I am guessing he sticks with Any Given Saturday, especially as Circular Quay is VERY iffy.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

He doesn't even know, though I am guessing he sticks with Any Given Saturday, especially as Circular Quay is VERY iffy.

is it just me, or did pletcher seem just the teensiest bit uncomfortable when asked about CQ? of course he said there is no problem....anyone believe that to be the absolute truth?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Danzig

is it just me, or did pletcher seem just the teensiest bit uncomfortable when asked about CQ? of course he said there is no problem....anyone believe that to be the absolute truth?

I don't envy Todd being in that predicament, and I am sure it is his hope they can get him to the Derby sound, but I also don't believe that will be the case. Nor do most people around the racetrack. It's too bad as he would only add to the race.....especially with some of the mediocrities that won preps today.

[Hoist Her Flag]

Sightseeing better go the Derby, If the speed falters, hes just as good as Tiago, who won out West. Why did Shug run in the Wood, if he was just going to save him for a summer campaign? Today he ran for 2nd place money and got 2nd. If Pletcher can run King of the Roxy and some other dubious horses are going to run. Plus I recall a Funny Cide ran 2nd in the wood to a superior horse and then reversed it 4 weeks later.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Hoist Her Flag

Sightseeing better go the Derby, If the speed falters, hes just as good as Tiago, who won out West. Why did Shug run in the Wood, if he was just going to save him for a summer campaign? Today he ran for 2nd place money and got 2nd. If Pletcher can run King of the Roxy and some other dubious horses are going to run. Plus I recall a Funny Cide ran 2nd in the wood to a superior horse and then reversed it 4 weeks later.

Comparing Empire Maker to Nobiz? No.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Comparing Empire Maker to Nobiz? No.

It's no more ridiculous than comparing Sightseeing's performance today to Funny Cide's effort against Empire Maker.