Scat Daddy

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

it's to bad Hard Spun has been mismanaged.

John,

Last I looked Hard Spun has one loss in his career. And that losing effort was a lot better than it looked. While Rick Porter may never shut up and has been meddlesome with Larry Jones' operating with the colt, he hasn't exactly been 'mismanaged'. While he would have likely won the Blue Grass had he gone, you can be assured that Jones will have him ready to run off the 6 week break. He is the most intriguing and difficult entrant to project in this Derby. The pace is certainly going to suit him, and he's the best bred horse in the field for the trip. The questions are exactly how good he is and Mario Pino.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Kasept

John,

Last I looked Hard Spun has one loss in his career. And that losing effort was a lot better than it looked. While Rick Porter may never shut up and has been meddlesome with Larry Jones' operating with the colt, he hasn't exactly been 'mismanaged'. While he would have likely won the Blue Grass had he gone, you can be assured that Jones will have him ready to run off the 6 week break. He is the most intriguing and difficult entrant to project in this Derby. The pace is certainly going to suit him, and he's the best bred horse in the field for the trip. The questions are exactly how good he is and Mario Pino.

while mismanaged might have been the wrong word John certainly has a valid point that the path (or rather lack of path) his connections have chosen is somewhat questionable...and you have been one of the most vocal about the owners decisions...why the backtracking?

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

while mismanaged might have been the wrong word John certainly has a valid point that the path (or rather lack of path) his connections have chosen is somewhat questionable...and you have been one of the most vocal about the owners decisions...why the backtracking?

Not backtracking. Porter is something of a meddlesome blowhard, but Larry Jones is top flight and the colt has in fact done little wrong. He's bred out the wazoo for this race, has a forward going style and high cruising speed that should fit this Derby pace scenario, and is potentially quite embraceable at a square price next Saturday. I don't think he's been mismanaged per se.. The perception is that he's been mismanaged based on the camp's machinations and their verbal blather associated with his Trail campaign.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Not backtracking. Porter is something of a meddlesome blowhard, but Larry Jones is top flight and the colt has in fact done little wrong. He's bred out the wazoo for this race, has a forward going style and high cruising speed that should fit this Derby pace scenario, and is potentially quite embraceable at a square price next Saturday. I don't think he's been mismanaged per se.. The perception is that he's been mismanaged based on the camp's machinations and their verbal blather associated with his Trail campaign.

of which you have led the charge...

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

of which you have led the charge...

Got to talk about something during those 3 hours a day..

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

of which you have led the charge...

just giving you sh*t because I can ....

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Kasept

John,

Last I looked Hard Spun has one loss in his career. And that losing effort was a lot better than it looked. While Rick Porter may never shut up and has been meddlesome with Larry Jones' operating with the colt, he hasn't exactly been 'mismanaged'. While he would have likely won the Blue Grass had he gone, you can be assured that Jones will have him ready to run off the 6 week break. He is the most intriguing and difficult entrant to project in this Derby. The pace is certainly going to suit him, and he's the best bred horse in the field for the trip. The questions are exactly how good he is and Mario Pino.

Watch the replay of the Lecomte or the Lanes End and I think you can say he's pretty darned good. Winning for fun 3-4W the whole way (regardless of the competition was "really" G2 level) @ TP was particularly impressive; in the fall/winter of '06, only 4 winners came from outside the 8 hole at a mile and a sixteenth or or a mile and an eighth in 43 races (86 starters). Mario Pino is a capable rider, I have zero concern with that... my ONLY reservation is the longish layoff but Jones is a very underrated trainer and should have him ready.

[Mortimer]

I noticed that as well ,Steve.


I had plenty of time on my hands.

[AeWingnut]

I agree Hard Spun is the best bred horse in the Derby. Great profile.

I have to say that if you are looking for a Derby win you don't prep or manage Hard Spun via Turfway then sit on it. One of the best horse players I know liked Hard Spun a lot. The lack of a prep against any of the contenders is very troubling.

sorry - didn't mean to hijack the Scat Daddy thread.

The one thing Scat Daddy has going for him that me and Cajun tout is he has the proper amount of syllables.

[miraja2]

I'm not a big fan of Hard Spun either. I don't give him a pass for his performance at Oaklawn the way many seem to do, and his comeback on poly hasn't changed my mind.
HOWEVER, there is a lot more to like about him (in terms of pedigree and performance) than there is about Scat Daddy (who I just noticed, is Sports Illustrated's pick to win the race).
As for Sam P.....I like his chances to hit the board at a price. Along with having a deceptive race in his last at Santa Anita, he has a 10f-type pedigree.

[JJP]

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sho...addy%27s+Beyer

Originally Posted by miraja2

As for Sam P.....I like his chances to hit the board at a price. Along with having a deceptive race in his last at Santa Anita, he has a 10f-type pedigree.

Okay what am I missing? I guess it was blackthroat or coach Billick or someone who mentioned this earlier. What is the evidence that his form has been "darkened" or deceptive? I just see a slow horse. What do you see.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by easy goer

Okay what am I missing? I guess it was blackthroat or coach Billick or someone who mentioned this earlier. What is the evidence that his form has been "darkened" or deceptive? I just see a slow horse. What do you see.

I already said why I feel his form is somewhat darkened.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by easy goer

Okay what am I missing? I guess it was blackthroat or coach Billick or someone who mentioned this earlier. What is the evidence that his form has been "darkened" or deceptive? I just see a slow horse. What do you see.

Don't get me wrong....nobody is going to be confusing Sam P with Seattle Slew anytime soon. Is he a likely winner? No. BUT he will most likely be a HUGE price in the race and I think he will probably have a much better chance to hit the board than his odds indicate. Look at his race in the Robert Lewis and compare it to the top efforts of the top colts in the Derby. Other than Street Sense's BCJ, it compares rather nicely and yet, they will all be in the 4/1 - 10/1 range and he will most likely be MUCH higher than that.
Other aspects of Sam P. that interst me are:
He has an allowance win over the CD track defeating (among others) Chelokee.
His 5f work over the CD track on 4/23 was sharp.
He has a 10f-type pedigree.
He certainly won't be my top pick or anything, but as a live longshot.....he is interesting.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by miraja2

Don't get me wrong....nobody is going to be confusing Sam P with Seattle Slew anytime soon. Is he a likely winner? No. BUT he will most likely be a HUGE price in the race and I think he will probably have a much better chance to hit the board than his odds indicate. Look at his race in the Robert Lewis and compare it to the top efforts of the top colts in the Derby. Other than Street Sense's BCJ, it compares rather nicely and yet, they will all be in the 4/1 - 10/1 range and he will most likely be MUCH higher than that.
Other aspects of Sam P. that interst me are:
He has an allowance win over the CD track defeating (among others) Chelokee.
His 5f work over the CD track on 4/23 was sharp.
He has a 10f-type pedigree.
He certainly won't be my top pick or anything, but as a live longshot.....he is interesting.

All the same reasons I've been following him for months now (I LOVE the way he is bred too!) My biggest concern with him is he was a bit of a nutcase prior to the Santa Anita Derby..which is what brought him to Churchill earlier in the first place. I haven't heard word on whether they are taking the blinkers off of him or not.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Not backtracking. Porter is something of a meddlesome blowhard, but Larry Jones is top flight and the colt has in fact done little wrong. He's bred out the wazoo for this race, has a forward going style and high cruising speed that should fit this Derby pace scenario, and is potentially quite embraceable at a square price next Saturday. I don't think he's been mismanaged per se.. The perception is that he's been mismanaged based on the camp's machinations and their verbal blather associated with his Trail campaign.

I wasn't particularly wild about how he looked during his work the other day.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

All the same reasons I've been following him for months now (I LOVE the way he is bred too!) My biggest concern with him is he was a bit of a nutcase prior to the Santa Anita Derby..which is what brought him to Churchill earlier in the first place. I haven't heard word on whether they are taking the blinkers off of him or not.

Oh geesh, and the only picture I've seen of him in any of the Derby Galleries he is acting up:

http://www.horsephotos.com/watermark.jsp?photoID=57965

[Danzig]

hard spun:

http://www.horsephotos.com/watermark.jsp?photoID=57076




http://www.horsephotos.com/watermark.jsp?photoID=57071