Curlin's connections

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Not that anything they are doing will have much effect anyway. You cant legislate morality.

Unless you live in California, then you can try like hell.

[sundaysilenceforever]

Originally Posted by ELA

I would like to set aside the Steve Assmusen element for a moment. This article speaks to Curlin's connections -- and a major component of that, and the article, are the owners. This right here is one of the major problems we have in this industry and this sport -- and that is the mainstream media.

Jess Jackson has put forth a great deal of efforts to bring to this industry something that we have never had before -- integrity! It is not only needed in the sales/auction/bloodstock arena, but other arenas as well; vis a vis the drugs in horse racing arena. For the author to trivialize, critisize, cast aspersions, and mock the efforts of Jess Jackson, he is gulity of showing no class and being nothing more than ignorant to the real issues. I don't care how many Pulitzer Prize awards he may have won or what is accomplishments are. His ignorance to this sport and industry stands alone with this article.

Satish Sanan also has been involved in bringing integrity to our industry. If men such as these are not successful, this will be, and has been to an extent, a major contributory factor in the decline of our industry and sport. Integrity, as a vision and destination, knows no borders. It may start in one area, but you could be assured that these efforts will continue with success. Nothing breeds success like success!

"Street Sense owned a cleaner story line. There was the sage 65-year-old trainer in Carl Nafzger, the trusted single owner in James Tafel and the local jockey as national hero that became Calvin Borel. Rooting for Street Sense was as easy as his running style.

With Curlin, it's much less so."

Thank you for the aspersion of setting the stage for what is to come.

Why is Curlin's owners a large and controversial lot? Because the author said so? Because they chose Steve Assmusen as a trainer? If they are to be condemned for this and this alone, then this industry is in such trouble. People who would critisize these owners as controversial are not looking beyond a trainer selection, when in fact there is so much more than that going on.

There are far too many hecklers in the stands. At least people like Sanan and Jackson don't sit in the stands and heckle like this author. They got in the game and played all out.

"Curlin's owners are a large and controversial lot, a glossy group of multimillionaires with the green to chase their equine dreams. We're not exactly talking Sackatoga Stables here, those lovable high school chums who owned 2003 Derby winner Funny Cide."

Is this the standard for owners to be measured by? I am sure we will soon see Jess Jackson and Satish Sanan selling beer, posters, books, and everything else. I am not condemning Sackatoga -- great story -- however, let's not make owning a Classic winning horse and not being the "wealthy owner" who paid a high price as one's automatic nomination to sainthood.

"Instead, we have Jess Jackson, the white-haired Kendall-Jackson winery and Stonestreet Farms proprietor who, depending on your view, is either a courageous reformer in the area of horse sales or a sorehead of a newcomer who doesn't know his place."

Doesn't know his place? The author is casting a net of foolishness and is mocking the efforts of someone who has a vision to make our sport and industry better. I would like to know what the author has done in this regard -- other than heckle.

I guess it's OK for Nafzger to compliment and acknowledge Curlin, but not for this author.

He closes his article by saying:
"Our job is to reconcile our questions about the connections with our appreciation for the horse. That might be the tougher of the two."

Really? Who gave him this job? And why is this "our" job?

We have a potentially great rivalry here -- 1-2-3 finishers in the Derby and Preakness, and now maybe all 3 heading to NY for the Belmont. Why aren't we hearing about that from this so called author. I say it's because he doesn't have the level of sophistication and knowledge to write such an article -- but can only write a "National Inquirer" type of piece.

This author has insulted every horse owner, fan, bettor and everyone involved in this great sport and industry.

Eric

How extremely well said. Maybe you could copy and paste this as a part of a letter to the editor and/or idiot who wrote the piece?

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by ELA

I would like to set aside the Steve Assmusen element for a moment. This article speaks to Curlin's connections -- and a major component of that, and the article, are the owners. This right here is one of the major problems we have in this industry and this sport -- and that is the mainstream media.

Jess Jackson has put forth a great deal of efforts to bring to this industry something that we have never had before -- integrity! It is not only needed in the sales/auction/bloodstock arena, but other arenas as well; vis a vis the drugs in horse racing arena. For the author to trivialize, critisize, cast aspersions, and mock the efforts of Jess Jackson, he is gulity of showing no class and being nothing more than ignorant to the real issues. I don't care how many Pulitzer Prize awards he may have won or what is accomplishments are. His ignorance to this sport and industry stands alone with this article.

Satish Sanan also has been involved in bringing integrity to our industry. If men such as these are not successful, this will be, and has been to an extent, a major contributory factor in the decline of our industry and sport. Integrity, as a vision and destination, knows no borders. It may start in one area, but you could be assured that these efforts will continue with success. Nothing breeds success like success!

"Street Sense owned a cleaner story line. There was the sage 65-year-old trainer in Carl Nafzger, the trusted single owner in James Tafel and the local jockey as national hero that became Calvin Borel. Rooting for Street Sense was as easy as his running style.

With Curlin, it's much less so."

Thank you for the aspersion of setting the stage for what is to come.

Why is Curlin's owners a large and controversial lot? Because the author said so? Because they chose Steve Assmusen as a trainer? If they are to be condemned for this and this alone, then this industry is in such trouble. People who would critisize these owners as controversial are not looking beyond a trainer selection, when in fact there is so much more than that going on.

There are far too many hecklers in the stands. At least people like Sanan and Jackson don't sit in the stands and heckle like this author. They got in the game and played all out.

"Curlin's owners are a large and controversial lot, a glossy group of multimillionaires with the green to chase their equine dreams. We're not exactly talking Sackatoga Stables here, those lovable high school chums who owned 2003 Derby winner Funny Cide."

Is this the standard for owners to be measured by? I am sure we will soon see Jess Jackson and Satish Sanan selling beer, posters, books, and everything else. I am not condemning Sackatoga -- great story -- however, let's not make owning a Classic winning horse and not being the "wealthy owner" who paid a high price as one's automatic nomination to sainthood.

"Instead, we have Jess Jackson, the white-haired Kendall-Jackson winery and Stonestreet Farms proprietor who, depending on your view, is either a courageous reformer in the area of horse sales or a sorehead of a newcomer who doesn't know his place."

Doesn't know his place? The author is casting a net of foolishness and is mocking the efforts of someone who has a vision to make our sport and industry better. I would like to know what the author has done in this regard -- other than heckle.

I guess it's OK for Nafzger to compliment and acknowledge Curlin, but not for this author.

He closes his article by saying:
"Our job is to reconcile our questions about the connections with our appreciation for the horse. That might be the tougher of the two."

Really? Who gave him this job? And why is this "our" job?

We have a potentially great rivalry here -- 1-2-3 finishers in the Derby and Preakness, and now maybe all 3 heading to NY for the Belmont. Why aren't we hearing about that from this so called author. I say it's because he doesn't have the level of sophistication and knowledge to write such an article -- but can only write a "National Inquirer" type of piece.

This author has insulted every horse owner, fan, bettor and everyone involved in this great sport and industry.

Eric

Well said.

I guess it goes to show that there are hacks in every business.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I believe that ego not integrity was the fuel that fueled the flame to "clean up the sales business". Two extremely successful guys got burned and needed to do something to fix those bruised egos. Not that anything they are doing will have much effect anyway. You cant legislate morality.

Chuck, that's a very good point. The original motivation might have been a blow to one's ego, and perhaps the results may be a very good thing. Others as well have also joined. I don't think it is just morality though. However, while that may be part of the mix, I think the sales integrity task force and related initiatives are taking an excellent approach. By developing standards, guidelines and protocols that the industry itself -- at least the inclusive part of the industry -- authors, they can accomplish several things. First, they are looking to establish a level or environment of self governanence, at least to an extent. That environment, once established, can be adopted by an organization that might have the bite behind the bark. That is something that is lacking in other parts of our industry as well. On the other hand, they can raise the bar and set a new standard for ethics, integrity, professionalism, etc. I think this is a "lead, follow or get out of the way" approach and mindset. This too is something that is needed in other aspects.

Those that do not join, operate by, and so forth would be easily identifiable -- and would be making a statement that they don't subscribe to this newly established set of standards. Now, that's OK. However, different people -- buyers that is -- will have different standards. It might be independent in nature, but readily accepted at a point in time.

People talk of a racing czar. Of course that won't work unless the true power to enforce, govern, etc. comes with it. Perhaps it's the Jockey Club or the RCI group that is the catalyst.

Technology has a shorter and shorter life cycle every day. Planned obscelesence is innate. Technoligical change brings about evolution and revolution. Maybe we will see the same thing in our industry and sport.

Eric

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Nothing but sour grapes and a smear. This article was a crappy hitpiece filled with innuendo.


the original owners were lawyers who are being sued. Apparently not found guilty of anything yet but certainly since they're being sued the author feels its okay to claim they're part of some "dark cloud" hanging over Curlin.

.

Shirley Cunningham is one of those lawyers who trolls for clients with TV ads ("Were you injured in an accident? Get the money you deserve!") He and some others recruited clients for a Phen-fen class action suit, then kept the greater part of the settlement as their fees. Clients claimed foul. Big scandal here in Central KY.

[Buffymommy]

Any hope of Curlin not going so it would free Robby up to ride Tizzy?

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Shirley Cunningham is one of those lawyers who trolls for clients with TV ads ("Were you injured in an accident? Get the money you deserve!") He and some others recruited clients for a Phen-fen class action suit, then kept the greater part of the settlement as their fees. Clients claimed foul. Big scandal here in Central KY.

Yeah I read about it. I guess it's not illegal for a lawyer to advertise on TV so I don't know why things like that are pointed out.

I read about the suit and understand that its ongoing. I guess the courts will decide and if they wronged their clients they will pay dearly for it. As I understand it these were the original owners and now are only perhaps minority owners.

I just don't like the tone of the article which painted the whole group with a broad brush as if they were all despicable criminals, lumping everyone together under this so-called dark cloud.

[jman5581]

I think he's just a little ticked off that Street Sense didn't win the preakness. But what do I know...



I didn't care for the tone of the article. Asmussen is an easy target. The owners might be less than perfect, but aren't we all? There's no evidence that anything illegal has been done with Curlin. He's just a talented horse trained by a controversial trainer and owned by a few millionaires. What's new?

Haskins' article at bloodhorse is great: http://tcm.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=39048

[sumitas]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Shirley Cunningham is one of those lawyers who trolls for clients with TV ads ("Were you injured in an accident? Get the money you deserve!") He and some others recruited clients for a Phen-fen class action suit, then kept the greater part of the settlement as their fees. Clients claimed foul. Big scandal here in Central KY.

Make her pay the clients their fair share and then make her spend some hard time thinking about it.

[Riot]

Shirley Cunningham is a man.

So as long as something isn't against the law then it's ok. Ok i'm going to ruin some lives now. Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehaw!!!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ELA

Chuck, that's a very good point. The original motivation might have been a blow to one's ego, and perhaps the results may be a very good thing. Others as well have also joined. I don't think it is just morality though. However, while that may be part of the mix, I think the sales integrity task force and related initiatives are taking an excellent approach. By developing standards, guidelines and protocols that the industry itself -- at least the inclusive part of the industry -- authors, they can accomplish several things. First, they are looking to establish a level or environment of self governanence, at least to an extent. That environment, once established, can be adopted by an organization that might have the bite behind the bark. That is something that is lacking in other parts of our industry as well. On the other hand, they can raise the bar and set a new standard for ethics, integrity, professionalism, etc. I think this is a "lead, follow or get out of the way" approach and mindset. This too is something that is needed in other aspects.

Those that do not join, operate by, and so forth would be easily identifiable -- and would be making a statement that they don't subscribe to this newly established set of standards. Now, that's OK. However, different people -- buyers that is -- will have different standards. It might be independent in nature, but readily accepted at a point in time.

People talk of a racing czar. Of course that won't work unless the true power to enforce, govern, etc. comes with it. Perhaps it's the Jockey Club or the RCI group that is the catalyst.

Technology has a shorter and shorter life cycle every day. Planned obscelesence is innate. Technoligical change brings about evolution and revolution. Maybe we will see the same thing in our industry and sport.

Eric

All of what you said is very true and well worded.

However I would say that a similar senario to what will occur and has been going on is getting together all the prisoners in jail, asking them to write new laws since they are so familar with the ones they broke, and then releasing them because they know best how to operate under the new rules since they wrote them.

When it comes down to it, money and greed will bring down the house of cards that the bloodstock business has become.

The "integrity" issue will always be a thorn in the side of the business of horse racing. It is hard for many people, myself included, to understand how you can call for integrity in one aspect of the business but employ a trainer that has had many problems with it. I understand that he is not in a popularity contest or running for office, but the sight of Jackson and Assmussen sitting together at the Keeneland sale while the former was taking his pleas to the KY legislature and the latter was in the middle of the longest drug suspension of a major trainer in recent times, was ironic in the very least.

I undestand that Assmussen runs a huge operation and as such is apt to have more "mistakes" than others, but where do you draw the line? 22 is ALOT of mistakes.

There are some things about all of the owners(except Bolton)that are not public knowledge that are not endearing in the least. Not that other people in the game are all saints but when it comes right down to it, it IS a pretty hard group to feel any joy for.

[lemoncrush]

Originally Posted by Riot

Shirley Cunningham is a man.

Surely, you can't be serious.

I am serious. And don't call me shirley.

[whodey17]

I could care less about the owners of Curlin. They arent very likeable at all.

[Antitrust32]

While I dont care for the connections, cept for Robby and Satish are A OK in my book, I friggin love watching Curlin run and I cant fault the horse for running with some lousy fella's.

[sumitas]

here's a bloodhorse article...i apologize if it's been posted before...
http://opinions.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=39049

[ARyan]

Originally Posted by ELA

I would like to set aside the Steve Assmusen element for a moment.

Eric

Why put that aside?

Steve Assmusen has made his own bed, then refuses to be accountable for his actions. To me he is no better then Jayne Vaders, Murray Rojas, Scott Lake and others. In my opinion these are the folk who give this game a black eye. Instead of the small fines, and "days" where they continue to run things from a cell phone, they should be suspended for life after so many times testing positive.

How many times can you slap someone on the wrist?

Sorry for the rant, but I have been angry about this since the momment I saw Assmusen in the winner's circle last Saturday. I think Curlin is an incredible horse, I just wish he had a trainer that didn't get to where he is with a needle.

Honestly, who would not have rather seen Helen Pitts in that circle last Saturday?

[Slewbopper]

Originally Posted by Danzig

because it should be? i think it will be soon! or some heads will need examining.

The Wood was a G 2 for a while. I have no idea why.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by ARyan

Why put that aside?

Steve Assmusen has made his own bed, then refuses to be accountable for his actions. To me he is no better then Jayne Vaders, Murray Rojas, Scott Lake and others. In my opinion these are the folk who give this game a black eye. Instead of the small fines, and "days" where they continue to run things from a cell phone, they should be suspended for life after so many times testing positive.

How many times can you slap someone on the wrist?

Sorry for the rant, but I have been angry about this since the momment I saw Assmusen in the winner's circle last Saturday. I think Curlin is an incredible horse, I just wish he had a trainer that didn't get to where he is with a needle.

Honestly, who would not have rather seen Helen Pitts in that circle last Saturday?

I wasn't dismissing it completely and I certainly didn't say that. I was putting Assmusen aside to speak to the larger issue of the connections which the majority of the article spoke to. That's all.


Eric

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Personally I am very happy for Satish Sanan, a man who loves the game, has put enormous amounts of money and effort into racing, has been robbed for untold millions, had the nerve to stand up for himself and what was right, and continues undaunted to support the game. Personally I hope his success continues.

Plus, he likes to gamble.

Does he ever....

A very nice man and one of the "good guys" in the sport.