Joe says no

[pdrift1]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Again, Torre is a great guy. But if you were the Yankee brass, what would you have done? I'm just not sure what you wanted them to do. Offer him more money? What is your solution?

you wait it out because no manager is going to change that pitching staff that stinks. so you come to a understanding you have to rebuild and wait. mr steinbrenner should know by now you cant buy a ws. they need to bring up thier talent and wait

[pdrift1]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I'm not allowed to have an opinion then? I'd still love to know what you would have done. I've asked at least 3 times now.

This is not a personal thing. Calm down and look at it as a business, which is what it is.

i just told you what they need to do

[3kings]

Cashman is more to blame than Torre. He spent the money, without building a descent pitching staff. K. Brown and R. Johnson were over the hill, Orabu that clown from the Braves who got 50 million and won about 3 games. There were too many free agent mistakes by Cashman. If your going to spend the money, get some effing pitching. Cashman should have been the one fired.

[pdrift1]

Originally Posted by 3kings

Cashman is more to blame than Torre. He spent the money, without building a descent pitching staff. K. Brown and R. Johnson were over the hill, Orabu that clown from the Braves who got 50 million and won about 3 games. There were too many free agent mistakes by Cashman. If your going to spend the money, get some effing pitching. Cashman should have been the one fired.

ive said that in past posts that cashman should go before torre

[pdrift1]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I think he already bought 3. I agree that the Yankees need to go back and rebuild, but IMO you do that with a new manager. You are 100% right, their pitching staff sucks. Any rotation that features Wang as the ace is a joke. I just don't see the benefit of waiting to make this move.

well if he bought 3 already with torre he can buy another 3 with joe.so maybe its cashman that should be rolling out of town instead of torre. maybe cashman is the reason with bad pickups instead of joe. i'm not letting my emotions base this-but a new coach will do no better with what they have or what they will get

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Hoff, do me a favor. Take your emotion out of this for a second. The guy did his job. He was given the best players a manager could ask for. It didn't work out. What did he deserve? What should they have done? Sometimes it's best to part ways.

i still think this situation is akin to the chargers after their season ended prematurely last year. makes as much sense to do this. how much is enough, or not enough? the guy averaged a ring every three years, postseason 12 years in a row. those are really good results. yeah, everyone wants their team to win out, but how realistic is that to be a legitimate expectation?? and how can anyone think that running off torre, after a hell of a run, and going with someone new, is an improvement? or that they now have a shot to duplicate his successes in the next 12 years? with who? a big name alone won't do it.

i hope they get the baseball version of norv turner. that would be the ultimate end result.

[pdrift1]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I agree that Cashman deserves to be gone as well. I appreciate your opinion and thank you for offering what they should do. I just think it might be in their best interest to rebuild with a manager of their future.

i think right now they don't even know what direction thier future should be. george loves to buy older vets to win now-that will only put them back in this spot in a few years. the way to go is bring up your talent and wait for them to develop -but i cant see steinbrenner sitting four 4 years waiting for a youth movement to form in new york

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

So when is the right time to part ways with Torre? Wait until they don't make the playoffs? I think that you could have inserted Pinella, Bobby Cox, Larussa into the last 12 seasons and you would have had similar results. Hell, the first ring was with Showalter's team. I still say they are as good and better next year with some fresh faces in there.

the yanks say they want a ring every year, which is pie in the sky.
the goal, i always felt, was to get to the postseason. he's done that more consistently than anyone i can think of--yet it's not enough. hey, lofty goals are great, but fantasy is far from reality.
i think after the tremendous run torre gave them that they could have done better by him.

i also think many thought favre was done, and that they needed to rebuild around a younger QB. certainly motivated brett, he's still good. i think the problem with guys like favre and torre is that they set the bar so high, they in turn fall short.

i don't think anyone could produce what torre has, his seasons with the yanks have been pretty damn good.
i just think it's laughable to think that RIGHT NOW, anyone could have done better, could have gotten the yanks to the post season this year, and could improve on it next year.

torre did it, pure speculation what that team would have done with another manager, but everyone knows what torre accomplished.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pdrift1

you wait it out because no manager is going to change that pitching staff that stinks. so you come to a understanding you have to rebuild and wait. mr steinbrenner should know by now you cant buy a ws. they need to bring up thier talent and wait

Roger, you are correct. The Yankees are a flawed team regardless of the payroll. They are a 2001 All star team but this aint 2001. The starting rotation is a mess. They very well may have Hughes, Chamberlain, and Kennedy in the rotation to start the season with Wang and Petitte (if he returns). While those guys have great potential, having 3 guys under 25 in the rotation especially in NY and considering how they have protected them it is hard to see that happening. Which means they have to try Pavano or Igawa again which is scary. Of course this assuming Mussina and Clemens are gone which they almost have to be. The bullpen will revert to a total disaster if Rivera leaves and Chamberlain goes to the starting rotation. Even if Mo resigns, who else is there out there? Farnsworth? They really need bullpen help and some depth especially if they have young guys in the rotation who will be on short leash pitching counts. The problem is that good bullpen help is hard to find. The other problem that they have is the rapid aging of Damon, Giambi, Matsui all who have unmovable contracts. Catcher could also be a giant issue if Posada leaves, and even if he doesn't, he is getting to the age where catchers usually start to tail off. There is no good alternative for Posada. They have no legit 1st baseman, period. If Arod leaves there will be a huge hole that is obviously unfillable. I have heard the rumor of replacing him with Lowell but Yankee Stadium aint Fenway and Lowell will be a disappointment because the drop off will be too great. Jeter is a rock, Cano is a good hitting middle infielder and Caberera is ok in center. The word is that Abreu will be let go too. Though a couple of the pitchers did not play enough to qualify but the Yankees have no prospects in the IL top 20. Of course Free agency will play a big role and if some of the big guys leave there will be money to spend but on who? What they should do is clear out as many of the old guys as possible, hire a good manager (not Larry Bowa or Valentine) understand that they cant win next year without screwing things in the future or without a whole lot of luck and play for 2009 when they will have Santana and some of the D.Rays excess talent who they wont pay like Carl Crawford.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i still think this situation is akin to the chargers after their season ended prematurely last year. makes as much sense to do this. how much is enough, or not enough? the guy averaged a ring every three years, postseason 12 years in a row. those are really good results. yeah, everyone wants their team to win out, but how realistic is that to be a legitimate expectation?? and how can anyone think that running off torre, after a hell of a run, and going with someone new, is an improvement? or that they now have a shot to duplicate his successes in the next 12 years? with who? a big name alone won't do it.

i hope they get the baseball version of norv turner. that would be the ultimate end result.

Football coaches are far more important than baseball managers. Systems win in football when you have the right players to execute them. Baseball managers can screw up the pitching staff and play the wrong guys but baseball strategy is overrated in comparison to football.

[Cannon Shell]

I happen to agree with Da Hoss. I think it is time for a change. Not because Torre did anything wrong but they need to retool and look ahead and I cant see him wanting to go in that direction. Of course Yankee management wont do this either and will most assuredly make a couple of Pavano like signings.

[Cannon Shell]

But they did not exactly do it in a classy manner. Of course ...it is Steinbrenner...

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I'm not allowed to have an opinion then? I'd still love to know what you would have done. I've asked at least 3 times now.

This is not a personal thing. Calm down and look at it as a business, which is what it is.

Sorry I didn't get back sooner...

I'd been happy with Torre (12 straight playoff apearances - 4 World Championships)

I would have done nothing

That my friend, would have been the RIGHT thing and CLASSY thing to do!

Just my opinion a true Yankees fan

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

But they did not exactly do it in a classy manner. Of course ...it is Steinbrenner...

That's the point I was trying to get across.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

That's the point I was trying to get across.

Did you expect anything more?

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Did you expect anything more?

From the Yankees or other posters here???

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I'm sure he meant the Yankees, but say what you feel Hoff.

Sorry, but that's the way I feel...it just wasn't the right thing to do

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I meant about the other posters thing.

Well....I guess we agree to disagree

He's a nice guy. Give him $20 mil and let him fly a plane into the Empire State Building.

[Mortimer]

I have said this before.......Hossy said what I did.

I really don't understand the big deal here.











God.