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  #41  
Old 01-13-2008, 06:53 PM
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Cajungator26 Cajungator26 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bid
I know they didnt get outplayed, Im just taking the high road
LOL

Just giving you a hard time... the Gators were outplayed too. Don't feel lonely.
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  #42  
Old 01-13-2008, 06:58 PM
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I know you are. On the other hand Pee Garden really thinks he knows something and wants to argue about Limestone, sand, synthetics, dirt, grass, and how he should be the head super at Santa Anita.

Kickback is kickback Pee garden, horses arent running through it and jockeys are wearing hockey visors now. What do you suggest they do? If you want I can get you a job at Murfield Village as an assistant if you have a degree in turf managment.

A degree that you could have recieve at The Ohio State University
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  #43  
Old 01-13-2008, 07:11 PM
pgardn
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bid
I know you are. On the other hand Pee Garden really thinks he knows something and wants to argue about Limestone, sand, synthetics, dirt, grass, and how he should be the head super at Santa Anita.

Kickback is kickback Pee garden, horses arent running through it and jockeys are wearing hockey visors now. What do you suggest they do? If you want I can get you a job at Murfield Village as an assistant if you have a degree in turf managment.

A degree that you could have recieve at The Ohio State University
Tis a difficult problem. Mainly because the dirt in dirt tracks actually holds a lot of the sand down. The sand is needed so the dirt does not pack tightly and absolutely ruin the horses legs. If the sand is too sharp edged, it gets more clay in between it and can throw up giant clods of dirt. If the sand is too smooth it holds very little dirt (dirt settles out towards the bottom of the upper layer) and the horses go slow as molasses because the sand gives so much.

Because many of the synthetics have different type of artificial fibers that contain various amounts of wax that are supposed to stop the large particles from forming (and prevent really good draining of water) behave differently with diff. temp and moisture conditions I would not have a clue as it is a difficult problem.

Throw in the diff types of sand and some organics... a mess.
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  #44  
Old 01-13-2008, 07:17 PM
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The Bid The Bid is offline
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Pee Garden,

Thankyou for the Turf Management lesson. Let me know if you are certified to cut greens and I will get on the horn to my guy at MFV
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  #45  
Old 01-13-2008, 07:26 PM
pgardn
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bid
Pee Garden,

Thankyou for the Turf Management lesson. Let me know if you are certified to cut greens and I will get on the horn to my guy at MFV
Actually I am very interested in Turf.
Texas ATM had some great experiments going
on at a golf course here with all these plots set
up of diff types of hybird bermuda, etc...

They were looking at which way the blades grow,
how short they could be cut without damage,
how much water they required, How well they came
back from winter dormancy.

ANd I sure thank you for trying to get me a job.
Nice having upper level CEO's like yourself watching my back.
I got one unfortunately that I like.
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  #46  
Old 01-13-2008, 08:28 PM
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The Bid The Bid is offline
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Keep it in mind if your job ever falls out. I could help you with a push in to the turf management program at The Ohio State University as well. Im a good friend to have
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  #47  
Old 01-13-2008, 08:40 PM
pgardn
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bid
Keep it in mind if your job ever falls out. I could help you with a push in to the turf management program at The Ohio State University as well. Im a good friend to have
For some reason beyond me, firing public
school teachers and Junior College teachers,
even down here w/out
Unions, is damn near impossible.

Which is sad.

But to repay your generous offer,
I betcha I could teach you Physics.
If you ever catch yourself thinking
about putting satellites into orbit,
I can explain it free and online.

Heck maybe Steve could make
a section whereby we could all
talk Physics without learning to
hate it.
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  #48  
Old 01-14-2008, 01:10 PM
GPK GPK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bid
Pee Garden,

Thankyou for the Turf Management lesson. Let me know if you are certified to cut greens and I will get on the horn to my guy at MFV

can you get me in the door?
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  #49  
Old 01-14-2008, 01:36 PM
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Yeah Kev if you were serious
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  #50  
Old 01-14-2008, 02:00 PM
GPK GPK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bid
Yeah Kev if you were serious

get on Yahoo tonight...after 8
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  #51  
Old 01-14-2008, 03:55 PM
Rupert Pupkin Rupert Pupkin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bid
The base is kicking up. They say its new sand added, but anybody with a brain knows better. 10 claimers are going 107 for 3/4s.

The kickback on all the synthetics has always been an issue. At TWP there are a lot of horses that refuse to run through the kickback and totally shut it down. Same with Keeneland and horses swinging out 10 wide, they wont run through the garbage
In general, kickback is much worse on regular dirt than synthetic dirt. With normal dirt, it hurts when you get hit with those dirt clods. One of the big positives about synthetic is that you hardly feel it when you get hit with the kickback.

Santa Anita is obviously a different story. There are small rocks in the surface and from what I've heard when you get the kickback there, it feels like you are in a sand storm. So the kickback at Santa Anita is definitely a problem right now.

You won't get any argument from me about the track at Santa Anita. I think the track is horrible there right now. Even if the track drained perfectly, I would still say it's horrible. The track is way too hard. It's hard underneath and it's loose on top. You can't have a worse combination than that.
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  #52  
Old 01-14-2008, 04:00 PM
Rupert Pupkin Rupert Pupkin is offline
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Now that management has realized that it would take about a month to put in a new dirt track, rather than a week like they originally thought, now it looks very unlikely that they will be putting in a dirt track right now. I don't know what they will do when the meet ends. But for right now, it doesn't look like they're going to do anything. They have been encouraged with the initial testing they have been doing with that liquid that they guy from Australia has brought over.

I don't think that this liquid will even come close to solving their problems, but I think that they are going to put their hopes on this stuff because they don't want to have to close the track for a month.
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  #53  
Old 01-14-2008, 07:49 PM
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Rupe, I disagree with you.

The kickback on the dirt is nowhere near as bad as the kickback the horses face on synthetic, especially when its cold out. Watch a race at TWP in the evenings when the horses cock their heads and refuse to run through the kickback. Keeneland they go 10 wide to stay out of the kickback, and SA they were hockey visors. I would say the kickback is not only worse with the synthetic, its not even close.
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  #54  
Old 01-14-2008, 08:08 PM
ArlJim78 ArlJim78 is offline
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jockey comments on synthetics from the recent Bloodhorse article.

Robbie Albarado
"If I can go around there every day with one pair of goggles and one pair of pants and not have sand hit me at 35 mile per hour, yeah, I will take that every day"

Garrett Gomez
" The polytrack doesn't have a lot of kickback, which is good for the horses."

Patrick Husbands
"The polytrack to me is the best thing to happen to racing. It is easy on the horses and a more patient racetrack."

Rene Douglas
"What I like about it is that you don't have to get that dirt in your face. Its easier for a horse to ride through and easier to control your horse. I would 100% prefer synthetic surfaces"
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  #55  
Old 01-14-2008, 08:17 PM
pgardn
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bid
Rupe, I disagree with you.

The kickback on the dirt is nowhere near as bad as the kickback the horses face on synthetic, especially when its cold out. Watch a race at TWP in the evenings when the horses cock their heads and refuse to run through the kickback. Keeneland they go 10 wide to stay out of the kickback, and SA they were hockey visors. I would say the kickback is not only worse with the synthetic, its not even close.
I think I got a possible answer. The kickback on syn. looks especially bad from a sand point of view. Hard sand coming at 40 mph (relative velocity as the horse is moving usually a little less than 40 and the kickback is moving much slower but in the opposite direction the horse is going) might sting a heck of a lot. The syn. stuff is very bouncy and the sand really seems to pop up.
I totally agree with Rup about dirt clod kickback, especially on the track I frequent. If the moisture level is right, clods are produced and those hurt like hell. Any jock will tell you that at this dirt track. They do their best to reduce the size of the clods on grooming after each race, but then the horse impacts the mixture and this again compacts the dirt/sand mixture into clods DURING the race.
But of course I think very little about this stuff and know absolutely nothing. I am only a golf course expert... didnt know that, but what the hell.
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  #56  
Old 01-14-2008, 08:19 PM
Coach Pants
 
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Let me tell you something, ArlJim. Those quotes are spot on and should put an end to this ridiculous witch hunt the big people are on. Little people should be in charge of horse racing.

I call for a vote right now to make Gary Stevens Ruler of Horse Racing. All those in favor?
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  #57  
Old 01-14-2008, 08:20 PM
Rupert Pupkin Rupert Pupkin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArlJim78
jockey comments on synthetics from the recent Bloodhorse article.

Robbie Albarado
"If I can go around there every day with one pair of goggles and one pair of pants and not have sand hit me at 35 mile per hour, yeah, I will take that every day"

Garrett Gomez
" The polytrack doesn't have a lot of kickback, which is good for the horses."

Patrick Husbands
"The polytrack to me is the best thing to happen to racing. It is easy on the horses and a more patient racetrack."

Rene Douglas
"What I like about it is that you don't have to get that dirt in your face. Its easier for a horse to ride through and easier to control your horse. I would 100% prefer synthetic surfaces"
Yes, that is correct. Santa Anita is the exception to the rule. In general, there is far less kickback on synthetic tracks. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there is no kickback on synthetic tracks. There is kickback but it is not nearly as bad as on regular dirt. In general the jocks even come back much cleaner after the race. On regular dirt, if a jock is on a come-from-behinder, the jock usually comes back covered in dirt after the race.

By the way, if you have a horse that has only run on synthetic surfaces and he is about to run on dirt for the first time, it would be a big concern how he will handle getting hit in the face with real dirt. It stings quite a bit. If it was the other way around and you had a horse that had been running on regualr dirt who was running on a synthetic track for the first time, you would not have to worry about that issue.
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  #58  
Old 01-14-2008, 08:23 PM
pgardn
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pillow Pants
Let me tell you something, ArlJim. Those quotes are spot on and should put an end to this ridiculous witch hunt the big people are on. Little people should be in charge of horse racing.

I call for a vote right now to make Gary Stevens Ruler of Horse Racing. All those in favor?
I am a little person, height (and brain wise according to some).
I wish to be ruler.
Napoleon... of the single toenailed animals.

Goats have two toenails so I can avoid them.
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  #59  
Old 01-14-2008, 08:33 PM
Rupert Pupkin Rupert Pupkin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Jim, did you happen to see the jocks wearing protective masks today at Santa Anita? What are they for? Oh yeah, kickback. Talk about trying to fit an agenda.
Nobody is debating the kickback at Santa Anita. There are rocks in the track. That is why the jocks are wearing the protective masks. The jocks say that at Santa Anita it feels like they are in a sand storm right now. It's really bad.

There is definitely a problem at Santa Anita. There is no doubt about that. The only point that ArlJim and myself are trying to make is that in general there is much less of an issue with kickback on synthetic tracks as compared to regular dirt.

One issue that could be a concern with synthetic tracks is the long term health risks of swallowing rubber and synthetic fibers. The chances are that most come-from-behind horses are going to swallow some dirt whether they are on a synthetic track or a natural track. I can't tell you what the long-term health consequences are of swallowing rubber and synthetic fibers but it seems like it certainly could not be good.
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  #60  
Old 01-14-2008, 08:36 PM
Coach Pants
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

One issue that could be a concern with synthetic tracks is the long term health risks of swallowing rubber and synthetic fibers. The chances are that most come-from-behind horses are going to swallow some dirt whether they are on a synthetic track or a natural track. I can't tell you what the long-term health consequences are of swallowing rubber and synthetic fibers but it seems like it certainly could not be good.
Well they won't be the first animal on the track to swallow a rubber.
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