REAL HORSE meeting Good For Nothing Turf Sprinters

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

No. If you actually looked at the pps and really think there is contending speed then you don't know what you're looking at.

Sorry. But that's the truth. First Defence, if he breaks clean, can have any lead he wants.

thanks capt obv...

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

thanks capt obv...

That's actually being a dick.

Yes, it was obvious that he was lone speed, but you suggested he wasn't. I didn't announce here that it was some sort of genius conclusion that he had a huge pace advantage....I assumed it was a given. Then you contradicted that notion. Were you being a dick? I doubt it......because you're not one ( as opposed to me ). However, what you also said was patently false and misleading should anyone happen to read it and not really understand the race.

Keep it up....and you may have to change your name to scudsupsideyourhead.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

That's actually being a dick.

Yes, it was obvious that he was lone speed, but you suggested he wasn't. I didn't announce here that it was some sort of genius conclusion that he had a huge pace advantage....I assumed it was a given. Then you contradicted that notion. Were you being a dick? I doubt it......because you're not one ( as opposed to me ). However, what you also said was patently false and misleading should anyone happen to read it and not really understand the race.

Keep it up....and you may have to change your name to scudsupsideyourhead.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

That's actually being a dick.

Yes, it was obvious that he was lone speed, but you suggested he wasn't. I didn't announce here that it was some sort of genius conclusion that he had a huge pace advantage....I assumed it was a given. Then you contradicted that notion. Were you being a dick? I doubt it......because you're not one ( as opposed to me ). However, what you also said was patently false and misleading should anyone happen to read it and not really understand the race.

Keep it up....and you may have to change your name to scudsupsideyourhead.

not really you beat up on the fatman for starting a threat about an obv choice.. then proceded to defend the horse who as most of us know was the easy early speed ..he just hung on and you contend that we ..the rest of the world would be fools to try and beat em..and i didnt suggest he wasnt the early speed...not much to understand ..a huge drop in class and first turf .aka lets just get a win...and i am a dick...

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

not really you beat up on the fatman for starting a threat about an obv choice.. then proceded to defend the horse who as most of us know was the easy early speed ..he just hung on and you contend that we ..the rest of the world would be fools to try and beat em..and i didnt suggest he wasnt the early speed...not much to understand ..a huge drop in class and first turf .aka lets just get a win...and i

am a dick...

of course i can not ask a rod about it..lol

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

no pushover for first defence

the 9 has speed and coa
the 1 had speed and the inside
the 8 may the schwartz be with you!!

I'm sorry, then please explain this post.


I didn't " beat up on the Fat Man. " I was just joking with him. It's pretty clear I have a huge amount of respect for his opinion. Just as it's also clear that I thought betting against First Defence was probably a mistake. Win or lose, he's a dramatically better horse than today's competition and he has superior turf breeding ( probably better than dirt ). He wasn't great value at even money but to me you either keyed him or passed the race.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I'm sorry, then please explain this post.


I didn't " beat up on the Fat Man. " I was just joking with him. It's pretty clear I have a huge amount of respect for his opinion. Just as it's also clear that I thought betting against First Defence was probably a mistake. Win or lose, he's a dramatically better horse than today's competition and he has superior turf breeding ( probably better than dirt ). He wasn't great value at even money but to me you either keyed him or passed the race.

they were other options.. and he allmost got beat by 1

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

they were other options.. and he allmost got beat by 1

I understand. But, he was the dominent speed, that's all. I know it was obvious.

He was decidedly unimpressive today and even though he won it probably was right to bet against him in retrospect.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I understand. But, he was the dominent speed, that's all. I know it was obvious.

He was decidedly unimpressive today and even though he won it probably was right to bet against him in retrospect.

This is where understanding the concept BEHIND 'ENTRY' comes into play. I mean you can understand how to go about running an entry but you also need to grasp the concept. Penna understood it in the 5th, and won the race. Yesterday, DONK didn't understand it, and lost the race. 2 weeks ago, Cornelio (and Mott) failed to grasp it, and it cost them a win as well.

If Linda Rice took a look at the form, she'd realize that FD was the lone speed. She would thus realize that she'd have to 'sacrifice' one of her horses. Two horses working together in a race can usually take down a single horse: one duels while the other drafts. I feel for Mohegan Sky. She was too close to the pace last out and had to run harder than necessary. And, inexplicably, she was too close today; and ran her ass off. It can't be the case that she was the rabbit for Silver Timber. Any way you cut it, Silver Timber is supposed to GO. Oh wait, Cornelio was up. And, we've already established that he has no sense of 'ENTRY'. Clueless trainer; clueless jockey; result: A LOSS.

Game is hard when the connections can't get together.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

This is where understanding the concept BEHIND 'ENTRY' comes into play. I mean you can understand how to go about running an entry but you also need to grasp the concept. Penna understood it in the 5th, and won the race. Yesterday, DONK didn't understand it, and lost the race. 2 weeks ago, Cornelio (and Mott) failed to grasp it, and it cost them a win as well.

You can't honestly think the pace cost Spurred the race? He didn't run a step and the winner was winning no matter what. The second horse was the one hurt the most by the pace.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

This is where understanding the concept BEHIND 'ENTRY' comes into play. I mean you can understand how to go about running an entry but you also need to grasp the concept. Penna understood it in the 5th, and won the race. Yesterday, DONK didn't understand it, and lost the race. 2 weeks ago, Cornelio (and Mott) failed to grasp it, and it cost them a win as well.

If Linda Rice took a look at the form, she'd realize that FD was the lone speed. She would thus realize that she'd have to 'sacrifice' one of her horses. Two horses working together in a race can usually take down a single horse: one duels while the other drafts. I feel for Mohegan Sky. She was too close to the pace last out and had to run harder than necessary. And, inexplicably, she was too close today; and ran her ass off. It can't be the case that she was the rabbit for Silver Timber. Any way you cut it, Silver Timber is supposed to GO. Oh wait, Cornelio was up. And, we've already established that he has no sense of 'ENTRY'. Clueless trainer; clueless jockey; result: A LOSS.

Game is hard when the connections can't get together.

How exactly does Linda Rice decide to do this? She has two horses, owned by different owners who probably put up at least $1500 to run. They finished noses apart about a month ago and are now entered in the richest turf sprint of the year in New York. With a limited number of starts per year, I seriously doubt that either owner would be willing to sacrifice his horse for the other. If they were owned by the same connections, that would be one thing, but in this case they weren't, suggesting that this post was clueless.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

You can't honestly think the pace cost Spurred the race? He didn't run a step and the winner was winning no matter what. The second horse was the one hurt the most by the pace.

I'm basing this on a single viewing of the race but I do, actually, think that Spurred had absolutely NO shot given the way the race played out. Look at the chart: he's the only horse gaining the first three splits; the last of which gutted him. He was forced to run at the worst point in the race; and he was wide.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

How exactly does Linda Rice decide to do this? She has two horses, owned by different owners who probably put up at least $1500 to run. They finished noses apart about a month ago and are now entered in the richest turf sprint of the year in New York. With a limited number of starts per year, I seriously doubt that either owner would be willing to sacrifice his horse for the other. If they were owned by the same connections, that would be one thing, but in this case they weren't, suggesting that this post was clueless.

Well. I think you have a point. Before the race it wasn't obvious which of the two horses was better. I'm sure Rice had no idea, given the recent form of the two.

And, Rice certainly wouldn't want to have a situation where she'd actually venture an honest opinion before the race to the owners. So, the best way to handle this, all around, would be to let Silver Timber get a 'workout', looking at asses, at the rear of the pack, 'cause this is DISTINCTLY different from getting a workout with the pace for a quarter mile; and Mohegan Sky to get an ass kicking chasing the pace. And, the sweetest thing of all is that you're CONCEDING the race to the chalk and Bobby Frankel. I'm sure he appreciates it.

Thanks for clearing this up for me.

[hockey2315]

Silver Timber was supplemented in by the way. . . not sure how that could be relevant but it's worth noting I guess.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

I'm basing this on a single viewing of the race but I do, actually, think that Spurred had absolutely NO shot given the way the race played out. Look at the chart: he's the only horse gaining the first three splits; the last of which gutted him. He was forced to run at the worst point in the race; and he was wide.

looking at that chart it looks like a pretty big move into that fast quarter.