Colonel John - Page 3

SniperSB23 · #41 10-02-2008, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

is that really saying a lot considering?

No, but he's not as bad as people are making him out to be cause of how much he was overhyped (especially on here). He's the only 3yo aside from Big Brown that has any chance against older horses.

blackthroatedwind · #42 10-02-2008, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

No, but he's not as bad as people are making him out to be cause of how much he was overhyped (especially on here). He's the only 3yo aside from Big Brown that has any chance against older horses.

There are more than a few 3YOs who right now could beat older horses.

SniperSB23 · #43 10-02-2008, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

There are more than a few 3YOs who right now could beat older horses.

I was referring to males routing on the dirt. Sure there are a few that can beat AP Arrow and Ravel but not any others I could see running with a Wanderin Boy or Student Council.

blackthroatedwind · #44 10-02-2008, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I was referring to males routing on the dirt. Sure there are a few that can beat AP Arrow and Ravel but not any others I could see running with a Wanderin Boy or Student Council.

I'm not so sure. Certainly I would give Mambo in Seattle ( who is better than Colonel John ) another chance on a dry track. Harlem Rocker could be competitive in the Cigar Mile.

SniperSB23 · #45 10-02-2008, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I'm not so sure. Certainly I would give Mambo in Seattle ( who is better than Colonel John ) another chance on a dry track. Harlem Rocker could be competitive in the Cigar Mile.

I agree on Harlem Rocker, although whether a one turn mile is a route is up for debate. Not so sold on Mambo.

RolloTomasi · #46 10-02-2008, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

So let me get this straight. You don't like Big Brown or Curlin, yet put Casino Drive, Tiago and "europeans" on your list of contenders. Obviously the surface is the question mark with Curlin and Big Brown. But isn't it with Casino Drive?

The classic part of this is that Casino Drive could very well tank in that allowance race next week, making all of this moot.

And since we're talking about Casino Drive, I just wanted to comment on all of the posts and articles I had to read all summer long about how Casino Drive would have definitely won the Belmont, had he ran, given how Big Brown performed.

Its funny cuz in reality, considering Casino Drive's soundness problems and how he was training at the time, CD might have been the only horse Big Brown was capable of beating that day.

freddymo · #47 10-02-2008, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

So let me get this straight. You don't like Big Brown or Curlin, yet put Casino Drive, Tiago and "europeans" on your list of contenders. Obviously the surface is the question mark with Curlin and Big Brown. But isn't it with Casino Drive?

Japanese trained horses don't have surface limitations DaHoss.. they are fed nothing but Yellow tail and Spanish mackeral, along with the speacial message therapy, this works to harden their feet and allowes for them to glide over all surfaces.. Geez you are so behind the times WAKE UP

freddymo · #48 10-02-2008, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

The whole thing is weird to me. You have horses who perform on the track over and over again and we all want to sh.it on them. But for some reason Casino Drive breaks his maiden and runs a nice race in the Peter Pan in May. And he's a contender. I don't get it.

Buy on mystery sell on history

letswastemoney · #49 10-02-2008, 12:59 PM

It's really simple. Casino Drive is lightly raced, therefore we don't know how good he is. All other horses, we've seen how bad they are time and time again. We know the other 3 year olds don't have potential. There is no improvement for them.

RollerDoc · #50 10-02-2008, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hrfan

how can you make that prediction ? they will be heavy chalk, never running on any type of synthetic.

This is very simple to answer. Look at both Big Brown and Curlin's records in 2008. Then look at the next best record after these two. You might need your binoculars to find another one worthy of picking.

letswastemoney · #51 10-02-2008, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

This is very simple to answer. Look at both Big Brown and Curlin's records in 2008. Then look at the next best record after these two. You might need your binoculars to find another one worthy of picking.

It's a bit presumptuous to assume they can translate those kind of performances to synthetic.

Danzig · #52 10-02-2008, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

No, but he's not as bad as people are making him out to be cause of how much he was overhyped (especially on here). He's the only 3yo aside from Big Brown that has any chance against older horses.

sorry, i don't agree. considering the dearth of talent (other than curlin) in the older horse ranks. i think getting hung up on one performance, especially that long ago, is a mistake. why hasn't the horse done anything since then?? it's a very bizarre deal, and i don't get it at all.
in a way, it reminds me of that south american horse who came up back in the spring, and kept getting money on him-for no apparent reason. and kept running up the track as a result. and yes, i know casino drive is 2/2-BUT i do not understand why a two time runner, regardless of dam, is getting any attention at all. i think he'll be in over his head. where are all the folks who get up in arms when a relative newcomer gets tossed into the fire like this? there are folks who don't think zenyatta is seasoned enough to run in the classic (and i disagree) but these yahoo owners get a pass, because casino drive is by better than honour?

Danzig · #53 10-02-2008, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

It's a bit presumptuous to assume they can translate those kind of performances to synthetic.

a bit?

RollerDoc · #54 10-03-2008, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

It's a bit presumptuous to assume they can translate those kind of performances to synthetic.

I guess it is just clear to me that any horse other than Curlin or Big Brown, not neccesarrily in that order winning the BCC would be nothing other than a longshot. and a surprise. Thier records this year make that statement simple to not only me but handicappers alike.

Danzig · #55 10-03-2008, 09:42 AM

a good handicapper will take the surface into consideration. to ignore a surface switch, regardless of feelings on talent, would be a big mistake. surface matters! it's an unknown at this point whether either big brown or curlin will handle the change. it's very possible that they'll like it, and it's also quite possible they won't handle the change at all. a drop in their effort may be enough for an AWT specialist to make up the difference.
handicappers don't bet the chalk, they look for who offers the most value/best chance to win money. this race is a good place to try to beat the favorite(s).

RollerDoc · #56 10-03-2008, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

a good handicapper will take the surface into consideration. to ignore a surface switch, regardless of feelings on talent, would be a big mistake. surface matters! it's an unknown at this point whether either big brown or curlin will handle the change. it's very possible that they'll like it, and it's also quite possible they won't handle the change at all. a drop in their effort may be enough for an AWT specialist to make up the difference.
handicappers don't bet the chalk, they look for who offers the most value/best chance to win money. this race is a good place to try to beat the favorite(s).

Agree 100%. To my point the money and handicappers (not to mention the media) will still be pointing to Big Brown and Curlin as the runaway favorites. The outcome may turn out very different, but I doubt it.

Danzig · #57 10-03-2008, 10:37 AM

i guess our opinion on what makes a handicapper must differ. the crowd of bettors will make those two the faves, while 'cappers will be looking to beat them. and with good reason, this will be their most vulnerable spot all year.

RollerDoc · #58 10-03-2008, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

i guess our opinion on what makes a handicapper must differ. the crowd of bettors will make those two the faves, while 'cappers will be looking to beat them. and with good reason, this will be their most vulnerable spot all year.

If what you say is true, looks like there will be lots of money to be won. I hope you cash in your share. Me personally, I will be looking for one final Big Brown pay day. I wish the race was tomorrow. I can't wait. I love how the Derby winner is going into the BCC with incredible momentum (two solid victories on dirt and turf over upstarts and veteran horses). Clearly the adversity is behind him and the Big Brown camp can concentrate on just winning this race and solidify the Eclipse of 2008. Should other awards come his way, he will be deserving. I expect Curlin to will bring the very best Big Brown has to offer. We could be looking at heartstopper at the wire.

Cajungator26 · #59 10-03-2008, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

If what you say is true, looks like there will be lots of money to be won. I hope you cash in your share. Me personally, I will be looking for one final Big Brown pay day. I wish the race was tomorrow. I can't wait. I love how the Derby winner is going into the BCC with incredible momentum (two solid victories on dirt and turf over upstarts and veteran horses). Clearly the adversity is behind him and the Big Brown camp can concentrate on just winning this race and solidify the Eclipse of 2008. Should other awards come his way, he will be deserving. I expect Curlin to will bring the very best Big Brown has to offer. We could be looking at heartstopper at the wire.

Yeah, when neither one of the two hit the wire first or second. LMAO

RollerDoc · #60 10-03-2008, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Yeah, when neither one of the two hit the wire first or second. LMAO

Why would you ridicule the two horses when all they do is WIN.....With your logic, thye would have a better shot at being one two if all they did was have much less impressive records than the rest?