PETA - Big Brown - Page 3

Cannon Shell · #41 10-15-2008, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I couldn't agree more. When I saw there was a Peta/Big Brown thread, I was expecting that they were going to be lambasting IEAH for pushing as far as they did with him knowing that he had the physical problems he did. And I'm not so sure I'd be able to disagree with them on that point either. This horse has exhibited problems with his feet from the start. It was never more evident than in the Belmont. Yet they continued to push on with him until it got so bad that they couldn't go on anymore. Then they retire him under the guise of doing what's best for the horse. Bullshit. What would have been best for this horse would have been to have been taken out of training a long time ago.

For what reason? To go to the petting zoo?

King Glorious · #42 10-15-2008, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

For what reason? To go to the petting zoo?

I just can't imagine that it was comfortable for him running on those feet. Maybe it was but I just can't imagine it was.

AeWingnut · #43 10-15-2008, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I just can't imagine that it was comfortable for him running on those feet. Maybe it was but I just can't imagine it was.

Did you mean taken out of training and retired or sent to a farm to give it a rest and come back as a 4 yr old?

fpsoxfan · #44 10-15-2008, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

PETA also sent a letter, seriously, to Ben and Jerry's encouraging them to use human milk to make ice cream.

I can only imagine the ad campaign.

breast-milk-ice-cream-DD.jpg

sumitas · #45 10-15-2008, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

To put it in perspective, you can get to Spectaculardynasty who has had about 15 starters, of which nearly all have won at some level, four of which have started more than 40 times, for the low low price of

FREE.

I have noticed that this sire is not too bad, but very, very under utilized . A shame because he is probably the only Spectacular Bid standing . 20 years old now .
Note : I just checked and tbred times has 8 sons listed at stud .
http://www.bluehousefarm.com/

RollerDoc · #46 10-15-2008, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I just can't imagine that it was comfortable for him running on those feet. Maybe it was but I just can't imagine it was.

Big Brown looked rank at The Belmont. He was never like that before in a race. Can his barking dogs be part of the reason he was rank? Or is there something more typical that causes this in a horse?

Stall Mucker · #47 10-15-2008, 08:11 PM

I thought the "wheel" problem on Brown was getting worse as he was kept in light sporadic training on the turf.
I hope he is allowed to feel no pain and gets no serious infection.

As far as PETA.....No argument can be presented to change their agenda.

So, for the rest of us, eat a nice steak and chase it with a glass of your favorite beverage.

Cannon Shell · #48 10-15-2008, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I just can't imagine that it was comfortable for him running on those feet. Maybe it was but I just can't imagine it was.

Many horses run on feet as bad or worse than his every day. You just dont know about it because there is no coverage of 99.99% of horses health outside of breakdowns. He had quartercracks, which alot of the time is due to hitting the ground in an uneven manner due to the way he is built as opposed to an injury that will heal with time. You could have given him a year in a field and as soon as he went into serious training he would have most likely had the same issues again.

Danzig · #49 10-15-2008, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

yeah like Danzig and Mr P

hey, i didn't....
oh, the horse. j/k, i knew who you meant.

and danzig sired the most stakes winners on the continent, and with small books. it's a crapshoot for sure.

personally, i wouldn't breed to big brown because boundary didn't do a whole lot in his brief career at stud, and big brown wasn't a top 3 yo.. he's just the top this year...too many horses out there with better pedigrees and more talent.

Danzig · #50 10-15-2008, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

I really wonder if they have 2 million members and supporters. I think we need to question the 700 horses suffering catastrophic breakdowns.
(is that world wide including countries like Mexico and Uraguay)

I don't think IEAH will/ should castrate Big Brown. I just hope that people won't take their mares to him and people won't buy his bad feet progeny

wonder if their insurance would pay on the fertility insurance if they did this and filed a claim?! i'm betting no.

Danzig · #51 10-15-2008, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I couldn't agree more. When I saw there was a Peta/Big Brown thread, I was expecting that they were going to be lambasting IEAH for pushing as far as they did with him knowing that he had the physical problems he did. And I'm not so sure I'd be able to disagree with them on that point either. This horse has exhibited problems with his feet from the start. It was never more evident than in the Belmont. Yet they continued to push on with him until it got so bad that they couldn't go on anymore. Then they retire him under the guise of doing what's best for the horse. Bullshit. What would have been best for this horse would have been to have been taken out of training a long time ago.

i thought he grabbed a quarter? yeah, he's had issues with his feet, but i doubt it applies in this instance.

Cannon Shell · #52 10-15-2008, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

hey, i didn't....
oh, the horse. j/k, i knew who you meant.

and danzig sired the most stakes winners on the continent, and with small books. it's a crapshoot for sure.

personally, i wouldn't breed to big brown because boundary didn't do a whole lot in his brief career at stud, and big brown wasn't a top 3 yo.. he's just the top this year...too many horses out there with better pedigrees and more talent.

Honestly it is about price also. If you could get to him for $20k you may take a chance he is going to do ok. But for $75k he is a huge risk for the reasons you said not to mention there are plenty of really good proven sires at that level. One of the mistakes that they made was letting the media make a big deal out of the feet issues. They simply talked too much. If you are staying in as a major stakeholder in a stallion the last thing you want is the media telling of the woes of your horses health over and over. There are quite a few major stallions that have gone to stud with far bigger issues than this horse has that you never heard about in the media.

Cannon Shell · #53 10-15-2008, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

i thought he grabbed a quarter? yeah, he's had issues with his feet, but i doubt it applies in this instance.

They may have said he grabbed a quarter but it looks more like he grabbed the equilox off his patched up foot. The foot is the problem at least from what we could see in the picture but it is more of an unfortunate issue than a true injury.

Danzig · #54 10-15-2008, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

They may have said he grabbed a quarter but it looks more like he grabbed the equilox off his patched up foot. The foot is the problem at least from what we could see in the picture but it is more of an unfortunate issue than a true injury.

doesn't rick dutrow usually keep his shoes off his front feet? i know i've seen horses reach up and pull their front shoes off...is this a similar occurrence, only instead of pulling off a shoe, he pulled off the patch?

Danzig · #55 10-15-2008, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Honestly it is about price also. If you could get to him for $20k you may take a chance he is going to do ok. But for $75k he is a huge risk for the reasons you said not to mention there are plenty of really good proven sires at that level. One of the mistakes that they made was letting the media make a big deal out of the feet issues. They simply talked too much. If you are staying in as a major stakeholder in a stallion the last thing you want is the media telling of the woes of your horses health over and over. There are quite a few major stallions that have gone to stud with far bigger issues than this horse has that you never heard about in the media.

75?! good god...is that what they really are trying to get??
and yeah, right now with farms reassessing fees, and people going cheaper with a lot of their mares, you don't want anyone looking at big brown and thinking worse of him then they would just based on him being a boundary. yeah, he won the derby...but so did giacomo, and he didn't get 75 grand--and i like holy bull better than boundary.
sunday silences conformation was pretty bad-it sure didn't hurt him in the end. but i'd think a poorly built horse would cause more hesitation than feet issues. how well is big brown put together anyway?

Cannon Shell · #56 10-15-2008, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

doesn't rick dutrow usually keep his shoes off his front feet? i know i've seen horses reach up and pull their front shoes off...is this a similar occurrence, only instead of pulling off a shoe, he pulled off the patch?

A lot of times you can train a horse with feet like this barefoot to kind of let the horses feet toughen up and let them naturally shape themselves. It looks like he pulled the patch and some of the foot off with it.

Cannon Shell · #57 10-15-2008, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

75?! good god...is that what they really are trying to get??
and yeah, right now with farms reassessing fees, and people going cheaper with a lot of their mares, you don't want anyone looking at big brown and thinking worse of him then they would just based on him being a boundary. yeah, he won the derby...but so did giacomo, and he didn't get 75 grand--and i like holy bull better than boundary.
sunday silences conformation was pretty bad-it sure didn't hurt him in the end. but i'd think a poorly built horse would cause more hesitation than feet issues. how well is big brown put together anyway?

Between 60 and 75 and I am guessing the high end to give them a little wiggle room on the deals. I honestly havent seen Sunday Silence in so long I cant remember what his conformation was like.

AeWingnut · #58 10-15-2008, 11:04 PM

so... will they start breeding horses to race instead of racing to breed

Bobby Fischer · #59 10-15-2008, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

This horse has exhibited problems with his feet from the start. It was never more evident than in the Belmont.

Big Brown's shoe got stepped on and bent down from another horse as they left the gate.

Cannon Shell · #60 10-15-2008, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

so... will they start breeding horses to race instead of racing to breed

It is not an exact science. There are a things that breeders have done that are probably not ideal but it is a really hard thing to do well. The vast majority of people who crave stamina and complain about the breed dont breed, own or race horses.