Horse of the Year?

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

Curlin....I guess, but for me personally it's the one who made me the most $$$ in 2008.....

Kickin N Screamin

I say give Steve a special Eclipse for scoring us those calendars.

[smuthg]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I have no idea how Eight Belles would get his vote

No idea? Was Proud Spell's Oaks or Alabama that much better than her Derby? Unless you're voting for Goldikova, I think Eight Belles has as good of argument as any other 3YO filly.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by smuthg

No idea? Was Proud Spell's Oaks or Alabama that much better than her Derby? Unless you're voting for Goldikova, I think Eight Belles has as good of argument as any other 3YO filly.

except that it's an award for the year, and sadly eight belles wasn't able to run the year. her derby placing was good, but not good enough imo to warrant the award. sentimentality shouldn't place her above a horse who had a better season, regardless of why that season occurred. keep in mind barbaro didn't win top 3 yo-and he showed a ton more than eight belles did up to that point in their careers-and he lost to bernardini, who had a very good year. barbaro may have had a better one, but generally the award isn't given on speculation.

[CSC]

None of Curlin's or Zenyatta's performances this year impressed me as much as Goldikova's at the Breeders Cup.

[smuthg]

Originally Posted by Danzig

except that it's an award for the year, and sadly eight belles wasn't able to run the year. her derby placing was good, but not good enough imo to warrant the award. sentimentality shouldn't place her above a horse who had a better season, regardless of why that season occurred. keep in mind barbaro didn't win top 3 yo-and he showed a ton more than eight belles did up to that point in their careers-and he lost to bernardini, who had a very good year. barbaro may have had a better one, but generally the award isn't given on speculation.

oh, I agree with you, but, I could see how someone could argue that Eight Belles was the champion 3YO filly.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by CSC

None of Curlin's or Zenyatta's performances this year impressed me as much as Goldikova's at the Breeders Cup.

It's hard to not be impressed with her turn of foot, and I certainly was impressed with her ability and think she's the real deal...but it's also certainly impossible to overlook that she got what was probably the most beautiful trip of any Breeders' Cup winner at this year's event. But yes, her quarter mile of running was something to behold.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

It's hard to not be impressed with her turn of foot, and I certainly was impressed with her ability and think she's the real deal...but it's also certainly impossible to overlook that she got what was probably the most beautiful trip of any Breeders' Cup winner at this year's event. But yes, her quarter mile of running was something to behold.

Yes, She got a great trip, I look at it as a strength rather than being lucky...the pace was quick, she has a high crusing speed, despite being close to the pace she booted clear in a split second and it was over. That was impressive if you ask me, more than what Curlin showed in his last 3 races.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by CSC

Yes, She got a great trip, I look at it as a strength rather than being lucky...the pace was quick, she has a high crusing speed, despite being close to the pace she booted clear in a split second and it was over. That was impressive if you ask me, more than what Curlin showed in his last 3 races.

And don't get me wrong...there were lots of "wow"s falling out of my mouth at Santa Anita after that race, I just think in retrospect it wasn't quite as amazing as it looked after sitting just off of the almost-certain-to-collapse-speed of Thorn Song and Daytona, and though it was a quicker pace, she got kind of exactly the trip that played to her style...cruising along with the rest and then seeing which runner can sprint the fastest for a quarter mile.

I give her plenty of credit where credit is due, but I don't think that the actual merit of the performance stacks up at all to the breathtaking visual of the performance...which is not imply that it wasn't a huge run, just maybe not as huge as it seems.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

And don't get me wrong...there were lots of "wow"s falling out of my mouth at Santa Anita after that race, I just think in retrospect it wasn't quite as amazing as it looked after sitting just off of the almost-certain-to-collapse-speed of Thorn Song and Daytona, and though it was a quicker pace, she got kind of exactly the trip that played to her style...cruising along with the rest and then seeing which runner can sprint the fastest for a quarter mile.

I give her plenty of credit where credit is due, but I don't think that the actual merit of the performance stacks up at all to the breathtaking visual of the performance...which is not imply that it wasn't a huge run, just maybe not as huge as it seems.

I didn't mean to imply you were not giving her credit, I know where you were coming from. The 2nd and 3rd place horses coming out of the race didn't distinguish themselves in their next starts, though one raced in HK which is never easy. Her form in Europe certainly suggests her BC race was not a fluke, rather it is the type of performance we expected. To me it was more impressive than any of Ouiji Board's BC's and that one is held to a very high standard over here.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by CSC

I didn't mean to imply you were not giving her credit, I know where you were coming from. The 2nd and 3rd place horses coming out of the race didn't distinguish themselves in their next starts, though one raced in HK which is never easy. Her form in Europe certainly suggests her BC race was not a fluke, rather it is the type of performance we expected. To me it was more impressive than any of Ouiji Board's BC's and that one is held to a very high standard over here.

Oh wow, you really do love Goldikova...I won't even touch that one

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by smuthg

No idea? Was Proud Spell's Oaks or Alabama that much better than her Derby? Unless you're voting for Goldikova, I think Eight Belles has as good of argument as any other 3YO filly.

You dont get awards for the races you lose. She basically was the 2nd best of a bad lot in the Derby.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Oh wow, you really do love Goldikova...I won't even touch that one

Obviously Ouija Board was a great filly I have no argument with anyone there, really I cited her BC races to be accurate and not her entire career. She beat Film Maker twice in her own division in the BC, whereas Goldikova beat males and given how she did it with an explosive turn of foot. In my opinion I was more impressed by Goldikova's race than any of the 2 BC wins Ouija Board ran.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You dont get awards for the races you lose. She basically was the 2nd best of a bad lot in the Derby.

very true.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by CSC

I didn't mean to imply you were not giving her credit, I know where you were coming from. The 2nd and 3rd place horses coming out of the race didn't distinguish themselves in their next starts, though one raced in HK which is never easy. Her form in Europe certainly suggests her BC race was not a fluke, rather it is the type of performance we expected. To me it was more impressive than any of Ouiji Board's BC's and that one is held to a very high standard over here.

i'm trying to keep in mind that you're comparing bc races, not the horses...because ouija board was a special horse. i'd also think that everyone expected both of these gals to win due to ability in the one(OB), and the competition, or lack thereof, facing the other.

[cakes44]

Give it to Curlin in a very weak year. Hystericalady would have beaten Zenyatta on the dirt this year IMO.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by CSC

Obviously Ouija Board was a great filly I have no argument with anyone there, really I cited her BC races to be accurate and not her entire career. She beat Film Maker twice in her own division in the BC, whereas Goldikova beat males and given how she did it with an explosive turn of foot. In my opinion I was more impressed by Goldikova's race than any of the 2 BC wins Ouija Board ran.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I'd rank Ouija Board's '05 FM Turf way above this year's mile.

Goldikova basically had Kip Deville, Precious Kitten, and Whatsthescript to beat along with the seemingly over the top Daytona and the run or none type Shakis, while Ouija Board had Film Maker, Megahertz, Wonder Again, Intercontinental, Karen's Caper, and if you want to stretch it, even Wend to beat (though she was never a real GI runner).

I'd take that latter cast as more rock solid than beating males in this year's BC. I think beating males only counts if there is a solid cast of males to beat lined up against you.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by cakes44

Give it to Curlin in a very weak year. Hystericalady would have beaten Zenyatta on the dirt this year IMO.

Hysterical Lady couldn't warm Zenyatta up on any surface.

[letswastemoney]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Hysterical Lady couldn't warm Zenyatta up on any surface.

you have no proof of that

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Hysterical Lady couldn't warm Zenyatta up on any surface.

In a fairly run race, with a legit pace, this is probably true. But if that Lady's Secret of this year had been run on dirt, I truly believe that Zenyatta would have a loss on her record.

[Stickhorse]

Zenyatta is a big fav of mine but it is going to be so difficult to keep her streak alive. She could have easily lost the day of the Vanity. It was a true test for her heart to win on a day when she was not at her best.

Here is a predicition for '09:
Cocoa Beach will be the first to beat Zenyatta.