Good Jub Obama! - Page 3

Cannon Shell · #41 03-09-2009, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot

I rest my case.

This is a big story because of the political implications not because of some scientific breakthrough. If he had refused to turn over the previous administrations policy it would also have been a political story.

Cannon Shell · #42 03-09-2009, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot

So? That doesn't mean some of our best minds have indeed left the US due to governmental restrictions on their areas of specialty.

Let me ask you a question. If there is a breakthrough in a foreign country it wont be applied here? What difference does it make where it is accomplished?

Some of our best criminals also leave the country due to govt restrictions on their area of specialty.

brianwspencer · #43 03-09-2009, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishofNDMan

This is what makes Obama such an idiot!!!!! Abortion is wrong and someone needs to shine some light on this. People try saying abortion is an alright practice because it's really not a person yet?? Are you f'ing kidding me! If you've heard of partial birth abortion you know how wrong it is. The baby is jacked up with drugs to force the women into early labor and the baby is born without a chance, and sometimes even lives as long as 45 minutes where a nurse will hold the baby and give it what they call "comfort care" before it dies.

If I remember there was once a day when a black man was not considered to be a person and was killed and tortured for this, until someone finally shed some light saying that they are people just like us.

Jews were once considered not to be a person and they were tortured and murdered until finally someone shed some light that they are just like us and they were finally treated fairly.

It's time that someone sheds some light on abortion and an end is put to it. If this practice is considered acceptable than I guess I am not all that proud to be an American.

Jesus -- after all this time, that's been all that's missing? If only someone would have just shed some light on this it wouldn't be happening anymore!!!!!11!!!1!!

#44 03-09-2009, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

yas see what happens when r and d get switched...
things that are not supposed to happen naturally.

hadron jeeezzzzz....

#45 03-09-2009, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

of course it was put that way-some folks think sperm in a sock is murder-let alone an embryo in a freezer being used for research instead of just being disposed of. apparently folks think there will be a sudden onslaught of mass embryonic development followed by mass murder. i guess i better keep an eye out, crazies hiding in bushes with needles, waiting to leap out and harvest whatever eggs i have left...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Drugs is freakin Pol Pot then

rul en enz ze flur!

or whatever....
Damn I wish I had posted this.

Danzig · #46 03-09-2009, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgardn

rul en enz ze flur!

or whatever....
Damn I wish I had posted this.

i have to admit as soon as i started the 'sperm in a' sentence, i thought of drugs and had to use sock. i didnt even know guys used socks for receptacles until drugs mentioned it-and then it was reinforced when i finally saw american pie (late last year, i'm a bit behind on the times).

Riot · #47 03-09-2009, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishofNDMan

Well when it came to voting it was put together as one and it makes me sick that some people would actually vote for this and that our "leader" would support it!!

Irish - you are right, some people mistakenly lump this as abortion.

Embryonic stem cells do not come from aborted fetuses, they come from eggs fertilized "in vitro" (means out of the body, in a petri dish) in fertilization clinics, but that are not used and are thrown out. These thrown out cells are 2-4 day old blastocytes.

These thrown out cells - with the permission of the donors - can be used instead in stem cell research.

I have used stem cells derived from a patient's own fat and injected it back into the patients hip joints to fight hip dysplasia (dog). We use adipose-based (fat) stem cells in horses (the patients own fat) to help repair tendons (have been doing that for several years). We can also use the pateint's own blood-based cell lines.

I know Chuck has purchased a horse in the past at the F-S sale, that came with the bit of information that it has it's own blood from it's own umbilical cord (from it's birth) saved in a laboratory. That blood can hopefully be used someday to derive it's own stem cells if the horse needs it.

But adult stem cells are not the same as embryonic stem cells - you can't always get the same things from them.

This summer there will start trials for people with certain spinal cord injuries. In the laboratory, mice with certain spinal cord injuries that cause them to be paralyzed have had certain stem cells injected, and the cells grew into the cells the mice needed, and the mice were healed and could walk.

Imagine if Christopher Reeve (remember, he got a paralyzing spinal cord injury in a fall from his horse, that made him a quadriplegic and ultimately ended up causing his death from pneumonia) - imagine if someone like this, with this terrible injury, could have been injected with stem cells that regrew the damaged neural tissue, and that paralyzed patient could walk again. How wondrous and great would that be!

Danzig · #48 03-09-2009, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot

Irish - you are right, some people mistakenly lump this as abortion.

Embryonic stem cells do not come from aborted fetuses, they come from eggs fertilized "in vitro" (means out of the body, in a petri dish) in fertilization clinics, but that are not used and are thrown out. These thrown out cells are 2-4 day old blastocytes.
These thrown out cells - with the permission of the donors - can be used instead in stem cell research.

I have used stem cells derived from a patient's own fat and injected it back into the patients hip joints to fight hip dysplasia (dog). We use adipose-based (fat) stem cells in horses (the patients own fat) to help repair tendons (have been doing that for several years). We can also use the pateint's own blood-based cell lines.

I know Chuck has purchased a horse in the past at the F-S sale, that came with the bit of information that it has it's own blood from it's own umbilical cord (from it's birth) saved in a laboratory. That blood can hopefully be used someday to derive it's own stem cells if the horse needs it.

But adult stem cells are not the same as embryonic stem cells - you can't always get the same things from them.

This summer there will start trials for people with certain spinal cord injuries. In the laboratory, mice with certain spinal cord injuries that cause them to be paralyzed have had certain stem cells injected, and the cells grew into the cells the mice needed, and the mice were healed and could walk.

Imagine if Christopher Reeve (remember, he got a paralyzing spinal cord injury in a fall from his horse, that made him a quadriplegic and ultimately ended up causing his death from pneumonia) - imagine if someone like this, with this terrible injury, could have been injected with stem cells that regrew the damaged neural tissue, and that paralyzed patient could walk again. How wondrous and great would that be!

and therein lies the rub. there are some who think life begins at fertilization-so they will of course object to using the cells, regardless of where they'd otherwise end up-in this case, the trash.

Riot · #49 03-09-2009, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

This is a big story because of the political implications not because of some scientific breakthrough. If he had refused to turn over the previous administrations policy it would also have been a political story.

Bush made science political. That was wrong. Now science is being returned to it's rightful place outside of politics.

IrishofNDMan · #50 03-09-2009, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

and therein lies the rub. there are some who think life begins at fertilization-so they will of course object to using the cells, regardless of where they'd otherwise end up-in this case, the trash.

life does begin at fertilization, I don't see how you can believe otherwise.

Danzig · #51 03-09-2009, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishofNDMan

life does begin at fertilization, I don't see how you can believe otherwise.

because a fertilized egg won't necessarily attach itself to the uterine wall for starters.

i'd just as soon not get into that whole debate tho.

#52 03-09-2009, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishofNDMan

life does begin at fertilization, I don't see how you can believe otherwise.

Then the number of deaths every year is sky high.
All the "miscarriages" that happen at the 1,2,4, 8, 16, 32, etc... cell stage.
Lots of little crosses.

#53 03-09-2009, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

because a fertilized egg won't necessarily attach itself to the uterine wall for starters.

i'd just as soon not get into that whole debate tho.

oops I did.

A little basic Biology can make things awfully gray.

Danzig · #54 03-09-2009, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgardn

Then the number of deaths every year is sky high.
All the "miscarriages" that happen at the 1,2,4, 8, 16, 32, etc... cell stage.
Lots of little crosses.

it's one of the arguments against birth control pills that some have made. one of the affects the pill has is keeping the uterus from allowing a fertilized egg to attach. i guess i'm going to jail.

Riot · #55 03-09-2009, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Let me ask you a question. If there is a breakthrough in a foreign country it wont be applied here? What difference does it make where it is accomplished?

Some of our best criminals also leave the country due to govt restrictions on their area of specialty.

Breakthroughs take time to be within the general public domain. An example, for decades, many pharmaceuticals have been accepted, used, studied and legal outside of the USA. We had patients leaving the US in search of the best medical care for particular conditions. We often require studies be redone from virtually scratch before acceptance here. Same with implants, heart valve replacements, that type of thing.

If it's not being done here, it will be a long time before it gets here.

In the meantime, before general public use, clinical trials - and the benefits to those patients - occur in the country of origin.

If we don't have an environment that fosters these health and scientific developments, the creative and bright people who are responsible for those developments go elsewhere. Where they can be creative and bright.

Your comment about criminals ... no comment.

IrishofNDMan · #56 03-09-2009, 07:32 PM

I'll give a little science lesson, correct me if im wrong...

The human sperm cells are alive. They are sex cells that contain half of the genetic code needed to make up our 46 chromosones.

Ova cells are likewise alive. They contain the other half of the genetic code.

When a sperm cell enters an ova a new cell is made. This cell is too alive and it is called a zygote. The zygote has all 46 chromosones in tact (half coming from the father, half from the mother). You now have a human being. 46 chromosones = human.

When did life begin? WHEN DID IT EVER END? The father is alive, the mother is alive, the sperm are alive, the ova is alive, the zygote is alive...EVERTHING IS ALIVE!!!

Danzig · #57 03-09-2009, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgardn

oops I did.

A little basic Biology can make things awfully gray.

well, i guess i really did too since i mentioned it and then explained my point a bit. but it's a very touchy subject to many. hell, i'm a mother of three-i think i get it.

Danzig · #58 03-09-2009, 07:34 PM

i'm going to go bury my bedsheets now, have a bit of a funeral.

#59 03-09-2009, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishofNDMan

I'll give a little science lesson, correct me if im wrong...

The human sperm cells are alive. They are sex cells that contain half of the genetic code needed to make up our 46 chromosones.

Ova cells are likewise alive. They contain the other half of the genetic code.

When a sperm cell enters an ova a new cell is made. This cell is too alive and it is called a zygote. The zygote has all 46 chromosones in tact (half coming from the father, half from the mother). You now have a human being. 46 chromosones = human.

When did life begin? WHEN DID IT EVER END? The father is alive, the mother is alive, the sperm are alive, the ova is alive, the zygote is alive...EVERTHING IS ALIVE!!!

So if you have a wet dream
its like the killing fields?

Is there a diff. between alive and human?
When does a cell become a human?
You said at conception... thats a problem then.
Do you realize how many humans die without
anyone even knowing?

IrishofNDMan · #60 03-09-2009, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgardn

So if you have a wet dream
its like the killing fields?

You sound like a moron now. I was just saying that everything is alive to begin with, and when fertilization takes place is it no longer alive? It has all the chromosomes to be human, so how is it not?