Delaware should throw in extra $500k for RA & Zenyatta - Page 3

ateamstupid · #41 05-30-2009, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eajinabi

Undefetaed 10 for 10, 8 Graded stakes wins of 4 were G1
I am not sure what else you want her to do? Unless you want them to ship to Europe or Japan. She beat all those that showed up and RA connections know where to find her. Breeders Cup is the best venue for RA and Zenyatta to meet. Anywhere else would be another 5 horse field in a phony race at a phony track. And even if Zenyatta wins, you still wont be satisfied.

Clearly if I want her to run outside of California for once, that means I want her to go to Europe or Japan.

RA knows where to find her: in Zenyatta's backyard, on a surface she's never tried, after a cross-country ship. Sounds like a real level playing field.

Like it or not, Rachel already has more significant accomplishments than Zenyatta. If anything, she has less to prove.

Danzig · #42 05-30-2009, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eajinabi

Undefetaed 10 for 10, 8 Graded stakes wins of 4 were G1
I am not sure what else you want her to do? Unless you want them to ship to Europe or Japan. She beat all those that showed up and RA connections know where to find her. Breeders Cup is the best venue for RA and Zenyatta to meet. Anywhere else would be another 5 horse field in a phony race at a phony track. And even if Zenyatta wins, you still wont be satisfied.

i want her to take on the boys-or travel and take on rachel. or rachel to travel and take on zenyatta. but, at any rate, i would like to see zenyatta do something other than run vs distaffers in cali. and yes, if she did other than what she's been doing, i would be satisfied. can't speak for ateam on that one tho.

eajinabi · #43 05-30-2009, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Clearly if I want her to run outside of California for once, that means I want her to go to Europe or Japan.

RA knows where to find her: in Zenyatta's backyard, on a surface she's never tried, after a cross-country ship. Sounds like a real level playing field.

Like it or not, Rachel already has more significant accomplishments than Zenyatta. If anything, she has less to prove.

So I take it that RA is not even considering the Breeders Cup? I guess they will stick on the east coast and run against also-rans.

eajinabi · #44 05-30-2009, 04:21 PM

I would like to see RA and Zenyatta run against each other but I feel the best venue is at the Breeders Cup.

Sightseek · #45 05-30-2009, 04:35 PM

Kind of off topic, but is Delaware park worth taking a trip to?

Danzig · #46 05-30-2009, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eajinabi

So I take it that RA is not even considering the Breeders Cup? I guess they will stick on the east coast and run against also-rans.

jackson doesn't like the synthetics, he's been pretty vocal about that. but he ran curlin out there and said it's possible rachel will run as well...but he also said if she came out for the bc, it would be for the classic. so, at this point a match up between the two doesn't look like a possibility.

ateamstupid · #47 05-30-2009, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eajinabi

So I take it that RA is not even considering the Breeders Cup? I guess they will stick on the east coast and run against also-rans.

I don't even know what this means, but I'd say Zenyatta has been running against "also-rans" a lot more than Rachel has.

eajinabi · #48 05-30-2009, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

jackson doesn't like the synthetics, he's been pretty vocal about that. but he ran curlin out there and said it's possible rachel will run as well...but he also said if she came out for the bc, it would be for the classic. so, at this point a match up between the two doesn't look like a possibility.

RA faced the boys and beat them. This years best horse is probably not the male version. Zenyatta is arguably the best older horse Male or female this year and RA is the best 3 yo male or female so far. The handicap male divison looks weaker than the 3 yo so running RA in the BC classic is a step down in my opinion.

Danzig · #49 05-30-2009, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eajinabi

RA faced the boys and beat them. This years best horse is probably not the male version. Zenyatta is arguably the best older horse Male or female this year and RA is the best 3 yo male or female so far. The handicap male divison looks weaker than the 3 yo so running RA in the BC classic is a step down in my opinion.

way too soon to know or say what the bc classic will look like. we're sure to have a couple euros again this year for one, and hopefully we'll have a couple of the currently laid up three year old colts back by then.
but i would say i doubt the distaff would be the tougher one. not only will their surely be stiff competition, the classic is at a longer distance as well.
as for top older horse, i think einstein could/would give zenyatta a run for the money.

Danzig · #50 05-30-2009, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I don't even know what this means, but I'd say Zenyatta has been running against "also-rans" a lot more than Rachel has.

i would as well. hell, rachel took on the top three derby finishers. what more can she do than that?

eajinabi · #51 05-30-2009, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I don't even know what this means, but I'd say Zenyatta has been running against "also-rans" a lot more than Rachel has.

You are right
Look at the claimers Zenyatta beat

Cocoa Beach
Music Note
Ginger Punch
Hysterical lady
Life is Sweet

Other than the Preakness, this is who RA beat:

Argyle Pink
Pride
Flying Spur
Afleet Deciet
Stone Legacy

Exactly!

Danzig · #52 05-30-2009, 05:08 PM

i like the 'other than the preakness' part...come on, you can't toss out the best race she ran, vs the best competition. lol
other than that mrs. lincoln, how was the play?

ateamstupid · #53 05-30-2009, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

i like the 'other than the preakness' part...come on, you can't toss out the best race she ran, vs the best competition. lol
other than that mrs. lincoln, how was the play?

Nailed it. I love that he excludes the Preakness, but decides to include Zenyatta's BC Girlies Classic win where she beat Music Note and Cocoa Beach (neither are anything great, by the way) on surfaces they had never run on. There's nothing like cherry picking to prove points.

The point is: Rachel has already won a more significant race than Zenyatta ever will. She's also won on five different racetracks already. Rachel takes her game with her, while Zenyatta's connections and supporters, lamely, think for some reason that everyone should have to come to her.

10 pnt move up · #54 05-30-2009, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Nailed it. I love that he excludes the Preakness, but decides to include Zenyatta's BC Girlies Classic win where she beat Music Note and Cocoa Beach (neither are anything great, by the way) on surfaces they had never run on. There's nothing like cherry picking to prove points.

The point is: Rachel has already won a more significant race than Zenyatta ever will. She's also won on five different racetracks already. Rachel takes her game with her, while Zenyatta's connections and supporters, lamely, think for some reason that everyone should have to come to her.

You guys are putting way to much stock into a three year old restricted race against MTB and Musket Man.

Its a very nice win but I usually want to see how they do against older horses. How many three year olds have won the BC Classic or the Distaff? Its not many and some of those years the older horses were very thin.

ateamstupid · #55 05-30-2009, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

You guys are putting way to much stock into a three year old restricted race against MTB and Musket Man.

Its a very nice win but I usually want to see how they do against older horses. How many three year olds have won the BC Classic or the Distaff? Its not many and some of those years the older horses were very thin.

You're missing my point. I'm not saying that Rachel is better than Zenyatta or who would win. But this idea that Zenyatta's done everything a mare can do and should be allowed to dictate the terms should the two meet is ridiculous. The Preakness may or may not have been an all-time field, but like I said, it's a more nationally significant race than anything Zenyatta will ever win swatting away the same 5-6 horses at home all year. Zenyatta's connections would never have the guts to try something like Jackson did with Rachel, and she passed with flying colors.

Danzig · #56 05-30-2009, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

You guys are putting way to much stock into a three year old restricted race against MTB and Musket Man.

Its a very nice win but I usually want to see how they do against older horses. How many three year olds have won the BC Classic or the Distaff? Its not many and some of those years the older horses were very thin.

it's may. i don't think too many are making rachel out to be the best ever, altho some are trying. thing is tho, it is just may, so a bit early these days to start putting a 3 yo vs older. rachel has done something most don't do anymore, which is a shame. perhaps that's why people are expressing frustration with zenyattas camp; we want her to branch out as well.

10 pnt move up · #57 05-30-2009, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

it's may. i don't think too many are making rachel out to be the best ever, altho some are trying. thing is tho, it is just may, so a bit early these days to start putting a 3 yo vs older. rachel has done something most don't do anymore, which is a shame. perhaps that's why people are expressing frustration with zenyattas camp; we want her to branch out as well.

many people, including some writers are doing just that.

I have learned to live with disappointment in this game, if it happens it happens. None of the boys in california can run with Zenyatta which is the most disappointing to me.

Bobby Fischer · #58 05-30-2009, 07:46 PM

Rachel would probably get eaten up in either sexes' Classic ,
however if she faced Zenyatta now, with a bunch of allowance horses filling out the field, I think Rachel would run off with it.

eajinabi · #59 05-30-2009, 08:23 PM

I dont see the point of Zenyatta shipping elswhere when their prize is on the BC at SA. If RA is going to run in the BC Classic then wouldnt it be nice if she gets a synthetic prep. If not she will always have the "never ran on synthetic" excuse if she loses in the BC this year.

Danzig · #60 05-30-2009, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eajinabi

I dont see the point of Zenyatta shipping elswhere when their prize is on the BC at SA. If RA is going to run in the BC Classic then wouldnt it be nice if she gets a synthetic prep. If not she will always have the "never ran on synthetic" excuse if she loses in the BC this year.

she ran/won at kee last year.