Good letter

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

So the patient pays $120 out of pocket to save themself the $30 dollar co-pay?

And to think I gave them the benefit of the doubt and called them ho-dunk instead of just plain assinine.

Whoosh ... sorry Dell, you are missing the big picture. Completely. Don't forget what happens to the patients insurance premium costs.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

why do you suppose some Dr.'s refuse Medicaid patients but not privately insured patients? And do those Dr.'s tend to be the bottom of the barrel or the cream of the crop?

maybe they're afraid it'll take forever to get reimbursed? you know, like the dealers and the cash for clunkers program.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

I can't believe you actually believe one-sixth of the economy and the largest private companies in the world will somehow magically disappear

No, the 85% of people insured today by their current private health plans will still be there. The government doesn't want to insure them. That is not in any of the reform bills now. We will be insured by our private plans. Nothing will change for us. Premiums may decrease. What will change is that the insurance company won't be able to drop their clients needlessly, nor exclude them for preexisting condtions.

BTW, not everybody is ELIGIBLE for the government plan (under both current House bill provisions). Private insurance isn't going anywhere.

Who will be insured are the currently uninsured. That's estimated to be 36 million out of 46 million uninsured, out of 330 billion in our country. Those whose big private insurance companies have dumped them because they made a claim (yes, that happens all the time, it's how insurance companies make money - by not paying claims). Young people that are currently uninsured will be encouraged to be insured and brought into the pools (decreasing costs for everyone). YOU will not be prevented from getting insurance because you have a pre-existing condition (happens all the time). YOU won't have to worry about losing your health insurance if you change jobs (happens all the time, few can afford COBRA)

Half of all bankruptcies in the US are caused by people bankrupted due to paying for medical bills - and the majority of these people are insured by private insurance companies. That will end. That is great for the economy.



Your insurance plan has a list of doctors in their plan, and a list of hospitals (providers) in their plan, and the insurance company determines what is paid out for what conditions.



They do now all the time. It's called "Medicare".

What "government plan" are you talking about? There is no single payer (the government paying for everything) in any of the reform bills. There is no provision for someone from the government to get involved in your health care.



??? The government isn't going to be "in charge of healthcare"? What provisions in the house bills or senate bill are you specifically are you talking about?

BTW, the government does very well, providing excellent comprehensive treatment at very lost cost (less than 5% of Medicare/Medicade budget goes to administrative costs) to Medicare, Medicad and Veterans right now.

If they can't compete with the private businesses in something so simple what makes you think they can do so with healthcare?[/quote]

The Post Office is far from the disaster you say it is. They compete very well. You put a stamp on a letter, they pick it up, and in 3-7 days it's exactly where you wrote on the envelope it should go.[/quote]



lol
the post office would have gone tits up years ago if it wasn't a federal program. how far in the hole are they now? 3-7 days...i sent a check 'overnight' thru the post office, it took almost a week to get there.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

maybe they're afraid it'll take forever to get reimbursed? you know, like the dealers and the cash for clunkers program.

You can relax about that now, they added tons of workers are are now flying through the reimbursements

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

You can relax about that now, they added tons of workers are are now flying through the reimbursements

yay

more govt employees.


as for me being relaxed about it, has no effect on me other than adding to our debt. but i guess that's just not a big deal.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

yay

more govt employees.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Danzig

yay

more govt employees.

.

Don't worry with the new Health Care system we'll be able to save the funding it by getting rid of Medicaid abuse and insuring the uninsured for less money under a streamlined government plan, with less paperwork and no abuse or fraud. Plus you can get Parenting classes and your family gets to talk to the Dr. when a loved one is going to die. Just typing that out made me

(My family has been extremely lucky as we were able to talk to an attending and other physicians REPEATEDLY each time a family member died) Can't believe that isn't common practice.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

(My family has been extremely lucky as we were able to talk to an attending and other physicians REPEATEDLY each time a family member died) Can't believe that isn't common practice.

It's more about planning before your end comes, I think good doctors always discuss it with their patients, but that discussion was not reimburseable to them (the doctors time for sitting, talking to the family and patient, recommending living wills, discussing end of life care, etc) under Medicare until the GOP put that "death panel" provision in Medicare a couple years ago.

Yeah, the same provision they are bitchin' about now. Hypocrites, aren't they?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

yay

more govt employees.

as for me being relaxed about it, has no effect on me other than adding to our debt. but i guess that's just not a big deal.

Sorry to disappoint, but it appears they didn't hire new employees to add to the debt, they just temporarily reassigned some current ones.

[Smooth Operator]

Originally Posted by Riot

Um ... we do not have the "best healthcare in the world" by anyone's public ranking. We do have the "most expensive" healthcare in the world.

Lol ... was being sarcastic, Riot.


Familiar with both the WHO and CF reports



Both pretty embarrassing for the current U.S. system...

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Lol ... was being sarcastic, Riot.


Familiar with both the WHO and CF reports



Both pretty embarrassing for the current U.S. system...

yea and WHO has no agenda. When you can be best in diagnosis and worst in the overall ranking the report is obviously flawed. You'll know when we are the worst. It will be when the rich from here are flying to foreign lands for care and Kings and Health Ministry heads aren't coming here.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

Sorry to disappoint, but it appears they didn't hire new employees to add to the debt, they just temporarily reassigned some current ones.

makes you wonder what they'll fall behind on now, if they're doing other work. but you're just not getting my point, the main part being that our govt is already too large, too wasteful, and too eager to spend. of course with people turning a blind eye to the budgetary mess while painting a rosy view of how things suddenly will get better-even tho it's the same govt doing the same stuff-you can understand why they are able to continue to drive us deeper into debt.
here in arkansas, the average govt salary is higher than the average worker salary-i don't think that's the way it should be.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

yea and WHO has no agenda. When you can be best in diagnosis and worst in the overall ranking the report is obviously flawed. You'll know when we are the worst. It will be when the rich from here are flying to foreign lands for care and Kings and Health Ministry heads aren't coming here.

That doesn't really prove anything. Nobody has ever doubted that the absolute cream of the crop medical care is in the United States. The problem is that not everyone has access to that.

But I'm hard-pressed to think that the WHO reports are really interested in measuring the healthcare system based on what a multi-millionaire/King/Health Minister can buy. The "system" is more than whether rich people can get the best health care.

If that's what we're debating here, then congratulations you win! The rich get great health care in the United States!!!!!!

And this, Dell, is the age-old gap between the two very different ways that we (meaning left and right -- and you and me, I guess -- at this point in time) view the world, and they're completely irreconcilable. You on the right care that you are taken care of and once that's done, everyone else can go f*ck themselves because you've already got yours and that's all that matters. We on the left think that there is something to the idea that everyone gets taken care of, and that it's not all about us as individuals being well-off because the better off we are as a group, the better off we are as individuals.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Lol ... was being sarcastic, Riot.


Familiar with both the WHO and CF reports



Both pretty embarrassing for the current U.S. system...

Whoosed over my head, sorry

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

makes you wonder what they'll fall behind on now, if they're doing other work. but you're just not getting my point, the main part being that our govt is already too large, too wasteful, and too eager to spend. .

No, I get your point of view. I admire you for your consistency (no government)

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

That doesn't really prove anything. Nobody has ever doubted that the absolute cream of the crop medical care is in the United States. The problem is that not everyone has access to that.

But I'm hard-pressed to think that the WHO reports are really interested in measuring the healthcare system based on what a multi-millionaire/King/Health Minister can buy. The "system" is more than whether rich people can get the best health care.

If that's what we're debating here, then congratulations you win! The rich get great health care in the United States!!!!!!

And this, Dell, is the age-old gap between the two very different ways that we (meaning left and right -- and you and me, I guess -- at this point in time) view the world, and they're completely irreconcilable. You on the right care that you are taken care of and once that's done, everyone else can go f*ck themselves because you've already got yours and that's all that matters. We on the left think that there is something to the idea that everyone gets taken care of, and that it's not all about us as individuals being well-off because the better off we are as a group, the better off we are as individuals.

So wrong, as usual,Brian! It's you on the left that want everbody in the same mudhole, whereas we on the right feel it's OK to rise above the rest with our skill and ambition!

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

So wrong, as usual,Brian! It's you on the left that want everbody in the same mudhole, whereas we on the right feel it's OK to rise above the rest with our skill and ambition!

It's us on the left who want to see everyone have a chance to get out of the mudhole. And you who still believe in the fantasy that it's just hard work and ambition that separates the haves from the have-nots, and with a little bit more boot strap pulling, all our inner city kids could be rich CEOs with access to the best medicine the world has to offer.

It's a positively irreconcilable conflict in worldviews. I'm just glad to not be on the side perpetuating that sick and selfish pipe dream.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

It's us on the left who want to see everyone have a chance to get out of the mudhole. .

wasn't that education? Our Chi town magnet schools (that rank near the top in the State and nation) can't do any better. You can't fix stupid ever and to try becomes a money 'mudhole' that f's everyone. Remember 'ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country'?

PS I'm working on my 'Adopt an Amigo' health/immigration bi-partisan plan which allows the bi-partisn panel appointees to 'locate' that huge amount of wasted Medcaid $$$ and apply it to a managed health care plan for illegals and with every insured illegal an illegal gets to go home. The negatives are none and the possitives are huge. Give it a year!!!!

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

wasn't that education? Our Chi town magnet schools (that rank near the top in the State and nation) can't do any better. You can't fix stupid ever and to try becomes a money 'mudhole' that f's everyone. Remember 'ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country'?

PS I'm working on my 'Adopt an Amigo' health/immigration bi-partisan plan which allows the bi-partisn panel appointees to 'locate' that huge amount of wasted Medcaid $$$ and apply it to a managed health care plan for illegals and with every insured illegal an illegal gets to go home. The negatives are none and the possitives are huge. Give it a year!!!!

viva dell

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

It's us on the left who want to see everyone have a chance to get out of the mudhole. And you who still believe in the fantasy that it's just hard work and ambition that separates the haves from the have-nots, and with a little bit more boot strap pulling, all our inner city kids could be rich CEOs with access to the best medicine the world has to offer.

It's a positively irreconcilable conflict in worldviews. I'm just glad to not be on the side perpetuating that sick and selfish pipe dream.

That certainly is not the view I hold, but I expected the regurgitation just the same! BTW, those rose-colored glasses don't do you justice