Macho Again - Page 3

Travis Stone · #41 09-07-2009, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

I dont know Travis. I just dont see it, its like he falls into those numbers. He gets a pefect setup in The Whitney and clunks for second. I actually just watched the replay, he is making up no ground on Bullsbay. Then in the Woodward he is supposed to blow her away, and he just hangs. Maybe I dont give him any credit, but I think a handfull of the 3 yr olds are better as well as fillies like Zenyatta and Icon Project.

I'm not saying he's Cigar Jr., but he's not a bum. He always run his race and sometimes it'll get him there. I guess my point was in today's racing game, the days of Ghostzapper are few, far and gone.

The Indomitable DrugS · #42 09-08-2009, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

The days of the 115 Beyer handicap division are gonesville.

Just because they've been missing for 2 or 3 years certainly doesn't mean that they are gone.

Bobby Fischer · #43 09-08-2009, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I'd be willing to bet he'd stink on that one too.

Everyone acts like each rubber track is so different, when in reality they are all pretty similar. Sure, they are a little different, and depending on maintenance they can change dramatically, but you don't see a lot of horses running vastly different from one synthetic to another.

I doubt we are going to see Macho Again run vs Bullsbay, Commentator, Asiatic Boy and Co. (his company) on pro-ride @ Santa Anita, so this is pretty much a theoretical discussion.

If it is a factor, I will adjust a little to whatever bias I happen to see at the track at that time. Probably isn't fruitful for me to try to typecast the different synthetic tracks to whatever bias i happen to associate them with.

CSC · #44 09-08-2009, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Just because they've been missing for 2 or 3 years certainly doesn't mean that they are gone.

On polytrack?

CSC · #45 09-08-2009, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

I'm not saying he's Cigar Jr., but he's not a bum. He always run his race and sometimes it'll get him there. I guess my point was in today's racing game, the days of Ghostzapper are few, far and gone.

I agree he's a honest horse, he will never be mentioned in the same breath as RA nor should he be mentioned in the same breath as a Dollar Bill. He lies somewhere in between.

CSC · #46 09-08-2009, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

He's a solid 102-108ish Beyer horse... in today's world, that's good. The days of the 115 Beyer handicap division are gonesville.

If Poly figures are still being rated on the low side, I would agree. However they have been supposedly adjusted...

The Indomitable DrugS · #47 09-08-2009, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC

On polytrack?

Why not?

Richard's Kid got a 107 Beyer in the Pac Classic ... and Song of Navarone and Awesome Gem got 102's for running 6th and 7th.

CSC · #48 09-08-2009, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Why not?

Richard's Kid got a 107 Beyer in the Pac Classic ... and Song of Navarone and Awesome Gem got 102's for running 6th and 7th.

Turf beyers and Poly numbers should be taken with a grain of salt IMO, if the final time is the means to arriving at them. Since some turf and poly races are basically crawl and sprints the final may skew them. I think the poly numbers can vary depending on the pace, do figure makers take pace into account? I'd like to know.

Antitrust32 · #49 09-08-2009, 09:58 AM

anyone know what Rachel got beyer wise on Saturday? Was a fast race...

she's really somethin thats for sure.

NTamm1215 · #50 09-08-2009, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

anyone know what Rachel got beyer wise on Saturday? Was a fast race...

she's really somethin thats for sure.

109 is the "preliminary" figure.

NT

CSC · #51 09-08-2009, 10:02 AM

And Summer Bird got a 110 in his Spa race.

NTamm1215 · #52 09-08-2009, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC

And Summer Bird got a 110 in his Spa race.

And does that further your notion that he's better than Rachel?

I am not a figure maker but I have a feeling the Woodward figure was tough to make given that it was the only dirt route of the day.

NT

The Indomitable DrugS · #53 09-08-2009, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC

And Summer Bird got a 110 in his Spa race.

And Icon Project a 114.

Heck, Will's Way once got a 126 in the Whitney and he only won by a nose.

If we are just going to start rattling off number without taking trip into account ... this will be fun.

The Indomitable DrugS · #54 09-08-2009, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

And does that further your notion that he's better than Rachel?

I am not a figure maker but I have a feeling the Woodward figure was tough to make given that it was the only dirt route of the day.

NT

If anything ... it's slightly too high at 109.

A lot of the horses like Cool Coal Man and Past The Point who got Beyers in the 70's will improve huge next time because they were up too close to a brutally fast pace and stopped in the Woodward.

While a hanging bum like Macho Again, who was nowhere near the pace, will come down to earth. As will Bullsbay.

CSC · #55 09-08-2009, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

And does that further your notion that he's better than Rachel?

I am not a figure maker but I have a feeling the Woodward figure was tough to make given that it was the only dirt route of the day.

NT

No obcourse not, Rachel's performance this Sat was her most impressive IMO, I am not taking that away from her. However I think Summer Bird's performance matches up to her's. Both are very good 3 yr olds and we are lucky we may be seeing them race as 4 yr olds.

philcski · #56 09-08-2009, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

If anything ... it's slightly too high at 109.

A lot of the horses like Cool Coal Man and Past The Point who got Beyers in the 70's will improve huge next time because they were up too close to a brutally fast pace and stopped in the Woodward.

While a hanging bum like Macho Again, who was nowhere near the pace, will come down to earth. As will Bullsbay.

Agree except for the last one. Bullsbay runs his race just about every time, and that was his race.

CSC · #57 09-08-2009, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

Agree except for the last one. Bullsbay runs his race just about every time, and that was his race.

Just a question does anyone here think another closer other than Bullsbay or MA would have won the Woodward if they ran? I know this is all speculation but that's where we are Monday morning quarterbacking...I think a closer with more conviction would have won that race and I guess who most know who I am referring to...God I know I am annoying...

NTamm1215 · #58 09-08-2009, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC

Just a question does anyone here think another closer other than Bullsbay or MA would have won the Woodward if they ran? I know this is all speculation but that's where we are Monday morning quarterbacking...I think a closer with more conviction would have won that race and I guess who most know who I am referring to...God I know I am annoying...

The Summer Bird of the Haskell and Travers who laid much closer to the pace would have been galloped into the ground. There's no way he could have been within a fart's distance of the pace she set and stayed on.

Now, if he had been taken back and allowed to make that one run that he did in the Belmont then that could have made things interesting.

The thing about the Woodward is that it would have set up well for any closer. However, they would still have had to get by her.

NT

GBBob · #59 09-08-2009, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

The Summer Bird of the Haskell and Travers who laid much closer to the pace would have been galloped into the ground. There's no way he could have been within a fart's distance of the pace she set and stayed on.

Now, if he had been taken back and allowed to make that one run that he did in the Belmont then that could have made things interesting.

The thing about the Woodward is that it would have set up well for any closer. However, they would still have had to get by her.

NT

Only one comes to mind.....Zenyatta...

CSC · #60 09-08-2009, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

The Summer Bird of the Haskell and Travers who laid much closer to the pace would have been galloped into the ground. There's no way he could have been within a fart's distance of the pace she set and stayed on.

Now, if he had been taken back and allowed to make that one run that he did in the Belmont then that could have made things interesting.

The thing about the Woodward is that it would have set up well for any closer. However, they would still have had to get by her.

NT

Yeah it would have been interesting, we will never know unfortunately but this Woodward answered some very important questions for me, RA can fracture speed, that is her strength, however in a fairly run race where we have all types of profiles she can also be beaten. This is not to take anything away from her, this Woodward was the best indication of her talents as a racehorse, not the 3 horse field in the MG or the Haskell or Oaks, in a fairly run race as the Preakness and Woodward she can be beaten. These 2 races have and especially the last have given me more appreciation for her then the open length wins she has accumulated in the past. She showed grit and I love that in a racehorse.

Edit-I also think it's a fair question to how she will do when the races are a furlong farther.