Lethal Heat possibly running both days of Breeder's Cup

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Cardus

No, it was not a lot of effort.

Don't diminish what I posted because I did a little bit of research to debunk the ridiculous.

What you posted has nothing to do with why I think so highly of Barry Abrams.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Kasept

First of all, I believe under current BC rules, he can pre-enter the 2 races but has to commit on entry day to one or the other. Then even if he could run in both, if you heard him today, he explained the circumstances under which he would do it.. a troubled, undemanding trip in the Distaff. It's a diabolically brilliant idea because it promotes talk about Unusual Heat and how durable and versatile his offspring are...

And a Lethal Heat running on consecutive days and what's going on with Lava Man is apples and oranges.

Steve who the F is Abrams fooling with these ridiculous Unusual Heat's.. Have a heart if racing needed a joker they would have hired Cesar Romero.. Please Unusual Heat..Chuck you lookin for a Swiss Yoddler?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cardus

This is so divorced from reality, I'd be embarrassed to post the above.

Let's put aside his character: he might be a "truly great" person in the industry. I take it that you mean that he is a person with exceptional values. That's great, the industry needs more of this.

"Since coming to this country?" He arrived in Burbank, CA at the age of 11!! Invoking someone's immigration into the United States and subsequent professional success is usually reserved for someone who enters at least in a little later in life and creates something life-changing. I don't see how arriving in 1964 -- he was born in March 1953, according to the NTRA -- and finding a modicum of success decades later makes him a "genius."

Is he sui generis because he trained and drove his standardbreds before becoming a Thoroughbred trainer? That could be the case, but from my research, that's not apparent. Guts was a really nice pacer -- I remember that name, Meadowlands Pace winner, perhaps? -- but what else did he accomplish in Harness racing that brought him to the precipice of "genius?"

If he is indeed a "genius," please inform the NTRA ASAP. From his NTRA bio, a career highlight was Golden Doc A's 4th place finish in the 2008 Kentucky Oaks. Alright, if you had the superfecta, you might disagree with this post.

Speaking of Time finished 8th in the 2008 B.C. Ladies Classic. And if she had finished in the money, on what pedastal would Abrams currently rest with you?

I have no agenda here -- who could have an agenda when discussing Barry Abrams, anyway -- and I wish his horse well if she runs in both Breeders' Cup races, but the facts are the facts.

He made a stallion out of Unusual Heat. Not just a stallion but a rousing success of a stallion that he claimed. A stallion that now stands for $20000 in CA! One with no Storm Cat or Mr P or AP Indy blood. That has been bred to cheap mares and has had simply made it despite pretty much no success at the sales but by siring runner after runner.

The guy won the Meadowlands Pace 6 years after starting his own stable.

He doesnt need to train for fancy outfits that hand him expensive horses. He makes lots of money in a game that virtually everybody else loses in.

Sounds like a pretty sharp guy to me.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Steve who the F is Abrams fooling with these ridiculous Unusual Heat's.. Have a heart if racing needed a joker they would have hired Cesar Romero.. Please Unusual Heat..Chuck you lookin for a Swiss Yoddler?

Are you kidding? Unusual Heat is a tremendous stallion.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Are you kidding? Unusual Heat is a tremendous stallion.

Tremendous like Speightstown? Tremendous like Pulpit? Tremendous like Street Cry? Tremendous like Smart Strike? Tremendous like Indy? Tremendous like King? Tremendous like Gone West Seeking etc etc .. He has sired a bunch that have beaten a bunch of Bertrandos and Swiss Yodelers maybe a stray Cee's Tizzy.. Lets go with a excellent regional to be fair

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Are you kidding? Unusual Heat is a tremendous stallion.

Uh....

When Lennyfromalibu is clear cut the best horse you've ever sired ... calling him a tremendous stallion is silly.

He gets a lot of productive Cal Bred turfers ... and he's a stallion who's benefited greatly from the synthetic invasion in So Cal.

Other than Lennyfromalibu .. who was a pretty nice turf sprinter/miler for a few races ... he's had nothing of top flight ability.

Not a single one of his top 8 earners he's sired has ever run a triple digit fig. I get that he's moved up mares ... but you have to throw something with some ability at least once before you deserve to be called a tremendous sire.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cardus

And if Abrams made him a stallion, in what way?

The same way Schosberg and Cannon Shell teamed up to make Catienus a "tremendous" stallion.

At least Catienus has a few real excellent runners.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Tremendous like Speightstown? Tremendous like Pulpit? Tremendous like Street Cry? Tremendous like Smart Strike? Tremendous like Indy? Tremendous like King? Tremendous like Gone West Seeking etc etc .. He has sired a bunch that have beaten a bunch of Bertrandos and Swiss Yodelers maybe a stray Cee's Tizzy.. Lets go with a excellent regional to be fair

Amazing. Seriously what are you talking about? You want to compare a stallion on an Island in CA that was claimed from a turf race and compare him to KY stallions.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Northern Dancer is his grandsire. That's not too bad.

And if Abrams made him a stallion, in what way?

How many horses heading to stud dont have those three stallions in their immediate families? No one else would have taken much of a shot with this horse.

Who do you think bred all those mares to him?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Uh....

When Lennyfromalibu is clear cut the best horse you've ever sired ... calling him a tremendous stallion is silly.

He gets a lot of productive Cal Bred turfers ... and he's a stallion who's benefited greatly from the synthetic invasion in So Cal.

Other than Lennyfromalibu .. who was a pretty nice turf sprinter/miler for a few races ... he's had nothing of top flight ability.

Not a single one of his top 8 earners he's sired has ever run a triple digit fig. I get that he's moved up mares ... but you have to throw something with some ability at least once before you deserve to be called a tremendous sire.

http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/truen...alifornia.aspx

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...-king-of-calif


http://www.galopsport.dk/information/unusual_heat_1.pdf

[Cannon Shell]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...re-lists/a-e-i

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...rican-earnings

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...ts/all-weather

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...ire-lists/turf

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...-lists/general

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Give it a rest.

Unusual Heat's success at stud right now has everything to do with the synthetic surface invasion in California.

Back when I was young, California racing was always king when it came to dirt sprinters. They'd almost always kick the ass of Eastern sprinters when they'd ship. A big emphasis was placed on early speed .. and the Cal breeding program reflected that.

Unusual Heat was a Euro import. He ran fast figs in America - and Abrams basically claimed a horse with a huge glowing "For Sale" sign .. got 2 whole races out of him .. and got lucky with him as a stud thanks to synthetic tracks. The comment read "returned lame" in his 2nd start off the claim when he was back in for a tag. Abrams had him sound for a whole 19 days.

Here's a cut of form from some claimers turned stallions. I included Cozar - he's the Unusual Heat of Presque Isle Downs .. only difference is that his offspring have to run open instead of against state breds.

[zippyneedsawin]

I think the double entry is great idea. It's about time.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Give it a rest.

Unusual Heat's success at stud right now has everything to do with the synthetic surface invasion in California.

Back when I was young, California racing was always king when it came to dirt sprinters. They'd almost always kick the ass of Eastern sprinters when they'd ship. A big emphasis was placed on early speed .. and the Cal breeding program reflected that.

Unusual Heat was a Euro import. He ran fast figs in America - and Abrams basically claimed a horse with a huge glowing "For Sale" sign .. got 2 whole races out of him .. and got lucky with him as a stud thanks to synthetic tracks. The comment read "returned lame" in his 2nd start off the claim when he was back in for a tag. Abrams had him sound for a whole 19 days.

Here's a cut of form from some claimers turned stallions. I included Cozar - he's the Unusual Heat of Presque Isle Downs .. only difference is that his offspring have to run open instead of against state breds.

Give me a break

The horse is the 4th ranked turf sire in the US.
You can disparage him and post all the inane bs you want but for a CA stallion to be ranked that high is amazing. And he was 2nd last year and 13th the year before. Think about that. This is despite having ridiculously weak mares compared to the others in the top 50 and most of his runners in one state and no single big earner.

His rankings pretty much show what kind of sire he is. The fact that he is a CA stallion, his book of mares and where he has come from to reach these rankings is downright amazing.

But dont worry, at least you have Freddy fooled

[The Indomitable DrugS]

How exactly do I have Freddy fooled? He's never once listened to me about anything.

You called Leathal Heat a "tremendous sire". I guess that makes him a tremendous sire who's all-time best horse is the mighty Lennyfromalibu.

But hey ... he's really good with Cal Bred turf and synthetic horses!

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

How exactly do I have Freddy fooled? He's never once listened to me about anything.

You called Leathal Heat a "tremendous sire". I guess that makes him a tremendous sire who's all-time best horse is the mighty Lennyfromalibu.

But hey ... he's really good with Cal Bred turf and synthetic horses!

He gets a very high percentage of runners. many can and do earn enough to keep their owners happy. To date he is Bertrando lite..

I bet Guts in the Meadowlands pace he was a monster on mile tracks couldn't run on a half to save his life.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

No doubt he gets a high percentage of runners. That makes him a move-up sire... not a tremendous sire.

Unusual Heat's leading turf horse by earnings this year has won 3 alw races and no stakes.

[Cannon Shell]

He is the 4th ranked turf sire in the United States

I was hoping not to have to do it but since it is pouring here and there isnt much else to do...
Ahead of
Tale of the Cat
Lemon Drop Kid
Stormy Atlantic
Pulpit
Smart Strike
El Prado
Distorted humor
Storm Cat
Street Cry
Unbridled Song
Empire Maker
More Than Ready
etc.

How is he able to have throw horses that have earned more than these sires with the group of mares that he has been given and the fact that his foal crops are dwarfed in size by the others?

Wanna know why? Because he is a tremendous sire.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

He gets a very high percentage of runners. many can and do earn enough to keep their owners happy. To date he is Bertrando lite..

I bet Guts in the Meadowlands pace he was a monster on mile tracks couldn't run on a half to save his life.

Bertrando lite? LOL

BTW he is ahead of Speightstown on every sire list

[Cannon Shell]

http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/brevi...nings&dir=Sire

13th leading sire of milers worldwide (no japan)

Not bad for a synthetic sire or bertrando lite