Fasig Tipton Spa Open Sale - Page 3

paisjpq · #41 08-16-2006, 06:31 PM

cajun--my 2 cents...sumitas is absolutely right. If you are looking for a filly to breed and she is not a winner she really needs to have a good 1st dam and /or some good siblings...otherwise you are setting yourself up for a foal with more than one generation of non-winners and buyers won't touch it.
best of luck though.

sumitas · #42 08-16-2006, 11:01 PM

This FT open sale replaced the NYBSC '05 yearling sale last year at Saratoga. The NYBSC had better numbers in '05 than FT did in '06.
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/auc...p?Summary=2856
below is the FT open '06 summary
.........HEAD...........................NOT
DATE SOLD AMOUNT AVERAGE SOLD MEDIAN

8/15/06 70 680,500 9,721 63 5,350

The '05 NYBSC sale was over 2 days and the FT open session was a 1 day event.

sumitas · #43 08-17-2006, 09:11 PM

another excellent article by the bloodhorse Ray Paulik. What is it that is really being sold in the ring ? I think full disclosure is good for all facets of the business.
http://opinions.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=34872

Downthestretch55 · #44 08-17-2006, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sumitas

another excellent article by the bloodhorse Ray Paulik. What is it that is really being sold in the ring ? I think full disclosure is good for all facets of the business.
http://opinions.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=34872

Sumitas,
I also agree that "full disclosure" is good for all.
This doesn't only include corrective surgery, steroids, and other things that those that hope to get a higher price at the sales, but I would include ALL medications (for the bettors to consider).
This industry has a very bad reputation (see Finley's article on the other thread or at espn). Those of us that are in it need to find ways to regain trust, or we'll lose the market and the bettors that support it.
I agree...ALL facets of the business need to be considered.
When harness racing appears to have more integrity than thoroughbred racing, we really have a big problem to overcome.
I hope TOBA does what it can to restore trust...though I doubt they could if they wanted to.
Seems to me that if people can find a way to "cheat", they do.
I'll just say that if they are found, they should be banned, whether a breeder that misrepresents a consignment, or a trainer that hides meds, or a jockey that "arranges".
Heck, in this industry we don't need the FBI, we need the HBI (horse bureau of investigation). I don't think TOBA can afford it, but it sure would take a step toward regaining trust.

sumitas · #45 08-17-2006, 10:11 PM

i am glad to read that corrective surgeries on foals have no negative effects on their future performance. so those surgeries, apparently widespread are actually a positive for the foal.

now, the steroids are troubling. it does not seem the right thing to do.

paisjpq · #46 08-18-2006, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sumitas

i am glad to read that corrective surgeries on foals have no negative effects on their future performance. so those surgeries, apparently widespread are actually a positive for the foal.

now, the steroids are troubling. it does not seem the right thing to do.

surgery on a foal may not have an adverse affect on it's future performance but what about when it retires and bagins to breed? It perpetuates the problem of crooked foals that may not be able to run at all without surgical intervention. Look @ some of Real Quiets foals...not that his problems were ever a secret but breeding him is certainly not a good idea--I don't care what race he won...or his daughter either.

#47 08-18-2006, 12:21 PM

Hey everyone. I've been swamped and havent been around but def missed this place! Im looking over the sales results now and what a great chance to pick up some nice bloodlines for dirt cheap! Although the two fillies that really interested me, 527 and 440, both went for pretty good prices when compared to the sale in general.

Anyone going to the OBS Aug? I think I may be there. My brother is going and im trying to convince him and his friend to go in with me on a filly.

Cajungator26 · #48 08-18-2006, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balletto

Hey everyone. I've been swamped and havent been around but def missed this place! Im looking over the sales results now and what a great chance to pick up some nice bloodlines for dirt cheap! Although the two fillies that really interested me, 527 and 440, both went for pretty good prices when compared to the sale in general.

Anyone going to the OBS Aug? I think I may be there. My brother is going and im trying to convince him and his friend to go in with me on a filly.

Which one? The select or open?

I'm going to the mixed sale in October.

sumitas · #49 08-18-2006, 01:55 PM

all the best on all your future endeavors...

jpg you bring up a good point. what about the future breeding ? full disclosure would certainly help in that area.
the 527 ($18k) has a solid family, very nice. overall very nice ped. 440($30K) also very nicely bred tail female to Qurrat al-ain. not seen very often.

sumitas · #50 08-18-2006, 03:44 PM

and here's a June article from Ray Paulick about steroids. i happen to agree with Arthur Han**** of Stone Farm about full disclosure and no steroids for horses.
http://opinions.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=10142

Downthestretch55 · #51 08-18-2006, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sumitas

and here's a June article from Ray Paulick about steroids. i happen to agree with Arthur Han**** of Stone Farm about full disclosure and no steroids for horses.
http://opinions.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=10142

Sumitas,
Needless to say, I'm in total agreement with you...if only for this reason,
"abuse of steroids in horses can cause negative side effects, including reproductive problems in both males and females. If given to young horses, steroids can cause premature closure of growth plates."
Seems to me that there is some complex testing involved to determine steroid use.
So...in light of the fact that an "honor system" isn't going to work, how do you think an anti-steroid policy can be implemented?

sumitas · #52 08-18-2006, 04:13 PM

there probably should be tests for steroids in horses at auction. until then, hopefully the buyers will come to recognize those they can trust. trust meaning, no drugs for the young horses and disclosure of corrective surgery.

Downthestretch55 · #53 08-18-2006, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sumitas

there probably should be tests for steroids in horses at auction. until then, hopefully the buyers will come to recognize those they can trust. trust meaning, no drugs for the young horses and disclosure of corrective surgery.

I sure hope that would work. It's already plenty expensive to bring one to the sales, so a bit more for testing that the consigner has to absorb cuts into the margin, especially if the sale doesn't attract buyers and there are a lot of buy backs (RNA). A good reputation is worth preserving, but it seems that the breeders, unless they're putting out market sires, are going to take it on the chin again.
As far as "corrective surgery", there's another huge expense that the breeder might not be able to recover. It should be disclosed before the sale, and I've seen some that didn't have any surgery that ran like hell anyway.
Storm Cat's come to mind.
To sum it up...I'd say no steroids for young horses. Disclosure of corrective surgery. Despite those good intentions, there will be "cheaters", as in most other things.

sumitas · #54 08-18-2006, 05:07 PM

the devil is in the details. but it seems this would be an expense the sellers would have to incur. the small breeders would be hurt the most as far as any additional expense. i suppose, what is there to stop a breeder now from testing their foals prior to the sale, and presenting a certified drug free test result for the buyers ? even that can be manipulated however. i guess we'll have to waith for the day that horses are tested at the sale and results are fairly immediate.

Downthestretch55 · #55 08-18-2006, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sumitas

the devil is in the details. but it seems this would be an expense the sellers would have to incur. the small breeders would be hurt the most as far as any additional expense. i suppose, what is there to stop a breeder now from testing their foals prior to the sale, and presenting a certified drug free test result for the buyers ?

A certified drug free test result would be the way to go. I don't know what the labs would charge, or how long you'd have to wait for the results.
Remember, you're looking at a minimum of two months just to get into the catalogue.
If this is what needs to be done to restore confidence to the buyers, I guess it's a pill we'll all have to swallow.

sumitas · #56 08-18-2006, 05:21 PM

yup dts, this is a work in progress. maybe a clause in the contract stating if the drug test comes back positive (the buyer pays) the sale is void...

Downthestretch55 · #57 08-18-2006, 05:30 PM

Sumitas,
As I type this, I'm looking at the consignment contract for the New York Breeders Fall Mixed sale (Sun and Mon, Oct 15,16). Item 6 is pretty clear about misrepresentation and fraud.
It might be worth your while to get a copy of the standard terms for consignment.
NY Breeders
376 Broadway Suite 111
Saratoga Springs, NY 12866