Who Is Horse Of The Year?

[randallscott35]

Another thing I've seen is people want to make this a Biggie vs Tupac thing. It's not east vs. west here people. I could care less how jacked the grandstand was on Saturday. That's wonderful, they don't give the WS to the Yankees every year because they have the most fans. On the field is where it matters.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

She's not obliged to ship East at all. Look at their campaigns...forget the this one dodged this or that. Look at the races themselves. One substantial race for Zen doesn't do enough to overtake Rachel.

Exactly and this is why I posted each horse's races on the other thread. I really hope that anyone who does have a vote takes the time to review and digest each and every race and fully appreciates each horse before casting their vote.

[slotdirt]

I don't see how Ghostzapper is an apt comparison to either of these. Who else was really worthy of the award in 2004 given how brilliant those four races were? Funny Cide? Roses in May?

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Another thing I've seen is people want to make this a Biggie vs Tupac thing. It's not east vs. west here people. I could care less how jacked the grandstand was on Saturday. That's wonderful, they don't give the WS to the Yankees every year because they have the most fans. On the field is where it matters.

(except I hate the Yankees)

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Another thing I've seen is people want to make this a Biggie vs Tupac thing. It's not east vs. west here people. I could care less how jacked the grandstand was on Saturday. That's wonderful, they don't give the WS to the Yankees every year because they have the most fans. On the field is where it matters.

Especially since the crowd at Saratoga was as loud as I've heard it when Rachel won the Woodward.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by CSC

It doesn't absolve why RA didn't run after Sept 5, why do so many of her backers choose to ignore this?

WHO CARES?

That would be an issue if she didn't run but once or twice all season. She danced many of the major dances and they happened to be dances that female horses seldom, if ever, and in one case, never had done victoriously. That is a campaign of epic proportions.

Does this really boil down to Rachel potentially having been in the JCGC setting the same ridiculously slow pace that Tizway and QR did over a quagmire of a track and beating up on your boy Summer Bird again? If so then you're grasping at straws as to why she's not the HOY.

This has nothing to do with Zenyatta needing to ship east as some have alluded to here. It has to do with what races she ran in when in her cozy home state. By the time Zenyatta ran in the Clement Hirsch Rachel had already done memorable things. At that point her connections needed to try the Pacific Classic or a similar race against males.

NT

[randallscott35]

Hopefully:

--The fact that Assmussen is the trainer and Jackson is the owner won't affect the vote

--There is no doubt that there are people who dislike the connections of Rachel and like the connections of Zenyatta

--In a close vote, that could make the difference...How sad.

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Hopefully:

--The fact that Assmussen is the trainer and Jackson is the owner won't affect the vote

--There is no doubt that there are people who dislike the connections of Rachel and like the connections of Zenyatta

--In a close vote, that could make the difference...How sad.

Its affecting the vote on here.

[Gander]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

WHO CARES?

That would be an issue if she didn't run but once or twice all season. She danced many of the major dances and they happened to be dances that female horses seldom, if ever, and in one case, never had done victoriously. That is a campaign of epic proportions.

Does this really boil down to Rachel potentially having been in the JCGC setting the same ridiculously slow pace that Tizway and QR did over a quagmire of a track and beating up on your boy Summer Bird again? If so then you're grasping at straws as to why she's not the HOY.

This has nothing to do with Zenyatta needing to ship east as some have alluded to here. It has to do with what races she ran in when in her cozy home state. By the time Zenyatta ran in the Clement Hirsch Rachel had already done memorable things. At that point her connections needed to try the Pacific Classic or a similar race against males.

NT

Like it or not, it could cost her the award, given what Zenyatta did and the recency of it.

Not the same thing but I will mention it anyways...Empire Maker lost the Eclipse Awrd to Funny Cide in 2003, most likely because he only ran once after his Belmon Stakes victory over Funny Cide and it wasnt a win. It was a 2nd in a really weak Jim Dandy field. I think Strong Hope won that race?

Anyways, recency and races in the 2nd half of the year play a huge part in votes. Look no further than the mighty Miesques Approval!

[slotdirt]

I legitimately can't believe that there are 53 human beings who regularly visit derbytrail.com who think Zenyatta is more deserving of horse of the year honors than Rachel Alexandra.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I legitimately can't believe that there are 53 human beings who regularly visit derbytrail.com who think Zenyatta is more deserving of horse of the year honors than Rachel Alexandra.

I legitimately can't believe you would be shocked by any opinion expressed on derbytrail.com.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Hopefully:

--The fact that Assmussen is the trainer and Jackson is the owner won't affect the vote

--There is no doubt that there are people who dislike the connections of Rachel and like the connections of Zenyatta

--In a close vote, that could make the difference...How sad.

very true and I'm sure a lot of people on the internet have their opinion swayed because of that.

I dont know much about Sherriffs but it was hard not to love him when they were showing him watch the races by the rail and how he was basically tearing up after Z won.

But it doesnt take away from the fact that Rachel had a much more impressive campaign. It would be an insult to horse racing if Rachel doesnt get the award. But I am totally fine with a co-hoy this year.

[Antitrust32]

Just as interesting in my opinion... top turf horse??


Conduit off his BC Turf win?

Pression Passion off his excellent 2nd and top performances all year?

Gio Ponti off his excellent year and 2nd in the "alternate turf" classic?

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

very true and I'm sure a lot of people on the internet have their opinion swayed because of that.

I dont know much about Sherriffs but it was hard not to love him when they were showing him watch the races by the rail and how he was basically tearing up after Z won.

But it doesnt take away from the fact that Rachel had a much more impressive campaign. It would be an insult to horse racing if Rachel doesnt get the award. But I am totally fine with a co-hoy this year.

can you imagine zenyatta on asmussen's dope? might crack a 100 in her two prep races.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I'm sure many do care, if Zenyatta never ran a lick Sat, this would be a moot conversation.

NT

Somehow this always comes back to Summer Bird and my motives, why can't you believe me when I say I truly 100% believe that up until Zenyatta crossed the finish line Sat, I would have agreed with all that RA was HOY.

It's this simple I believe Zenyatta was far more impressive in her defining race than RA was in the Woodward her defining race. That to me is enough to give her the nod for HOY. Maybe one should define what HOY means, to me somewhere in that equation there should be a disclaimer that states who the better horse is and from what I saw, one was all out to hold off a mediocre to good horse like Macho Again to another flicking off the best males in training with easy disdain there is no question to me who I think is a better horse and that to me supercedes what happened in 2009 up until this point.

P.S Just a clarification, this is less about winning the Classic than in which the way she did it, losing a pace threat 1 min before the race, coming from dead last with a less then spectacular start, and closing into an average pace against the best males in training and winning with much left in reserve. She is a very worthy choice for HOY when one examines just what she did Saturday in addition to preserving her unblemished career.

[DaTruth]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

I just don't get this notion that Zenyatta was somehow "obliged" to ship East. When Personal Ensign raced in 1988 (in races like the Molly Pitcher against modest fields), I don't recall anyone suggesting that she needed to ship to California to validate her campaign. (And, yes, they had planes back then also.)

When was Personal Ensign HOY?

[DaTruth]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Another thing I've seen is people want to make this a Biggie vs Tupac thing. It's not east vs. west here people. I could care less how jacked the grandstand was on Saturday. That's wonderful, they don't give the WS to the Yankees every year because they have the most fans. On the field is where it matters.

I consider RA a Midwest/Southern horse as much as an East Coast horse.

[Gander]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Hopefully:

--The fact that Assmussen is the trainer and Jackson is the owner won't affect the vote

--There is no doubt that there are people who dislike the connections of Rachel and like the connections of Zenyatta

--In a close vote, that could make the difference...How sad.

This is why, awards are so silly and meaningless. Their extremely biased.

I pointed out why Empire Maker should have lost the Eclipse Award to Funny Cide, but the real reason he lost the award was his connections werent very well liked, especially compared to the Funny Cide feel good story of the century.

Why dont you think Big Brown was more popular? Hmmm, I wonder.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by CSC

Somehow this always comes back to Summer Bird and my motives, why can't you believe me when I say I truly 100% believe that up until Zenyatta crossed the finish line Sat, I would have agreed with all that RA was HOY.

It's this simple I believe Zenyatta was far more impressive in her defining race than RA was in the Woodward her defining race. That to me is enough to give her HOY, in my opinion she is the better horse, maybe one should define what HOY means, to me somewhere in that equation there should be a disclaimer that states who the better horse is and from what I saw, one was all out to hold off a horse like Macho Again to another flicking off the best males in training with easy disdain there is no question to me who I think is a better horse.

The thing is... its is easy to point out the Classic as Zenyatta's "defining race" because the rest of her races were so average.

The Woodward was NOT Rachels only "defining race"

The KY Oaks was a "defining race" for sure

The Preakness was DEFINATELY a "defining race"

The Haskell was IMO, her most "defining race"

And her awesome Woodward was also a "defining race"

I'm sure you could also throw in her record setting Mother Goose as a "defining race" also.


So if you are going off of each horses "defining race".. its obviously Rachel.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by CSC

Somehow this always comes back to Summer Bird and my motives, why can't you believe me when I say I truly 100% believe that up until Zenyatta crossed the finish line Sat, I would have agreed with all that RA was HOY.

It's this simple I believe Zenyatta was far more impressive in her defining race than RA was in the Woodward her defining race. That to me is enough to give her the nod for HOY, in my opinion. Maybe one should define what HOY means, to me somewhere in that equation there should be a disclaimer that states who the better horse is and from what I saw, one was all out to hold off a mediocre to good horse like Macho Again to another flicking off the best males in training with easy disdain there is no question to me who I think is a better horse and that to me supercedes most of what happened in 2009 up until this point.

P.S Just a clarification, this is less winning the Classic but in which the way she did it, losing a pace threat 1 min before the race, coming from dead last with a less then spectacular start, and closing into an average pace against the best males in training and winning with much left in reserve. She is a very worthy choice for HOY, infact she is the only choice.

If you want to get into an argument of "defining" races and their respective race flows, I'll take Rachel's Woodward against Zenyatta's Classic. A race where you duel everyone into defeat through fast fractions, no matter who they are, is more impressive than enjoying a cozy inside trip off of an average pace and switching out late to rally.

Compared to a number of races Zenyatta ran in this year she had a perfect trip on Saturday. The pace was steady, she never got stuck in traffic and the early leaders melted down.

I'm really growing weary of the people who are throwing Macho Again and Mine That Bird into this as if their close finishes to Rachel Alexandra are somehow a black mark against hera as anyone who says that is completely ignoring the elements of those respective races.

NT