11/11 ATR: The Great HOTY Debate - Page 3

slotdirt · #41 11-12-2009, 02:56 PM

You know, who did win that nonsense race on Derby day for which Zenyatta was entered and scratched?

freddymo · #42 11-12-2009, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC

Again, I think this would be great and all had RA raced past Sept 5, and I know I will be reminded of her starting early in the year, her campaign was super up until that point, but in retrospect one would have to wonder which race would we have rather seen her in, The Martha Washington or the BC Classic.

If Jess didnt buy the horse she would have raced in the Coaching Club Alabama and perhaps the Distaff and most likely would be pointing for a date with AP INDY in Feb 2010

Antitrust32 · #43 11-12-2009, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

As evidenced by the "vote" on this board and many other racing sites, many think this is a close call. There's a difference between having a strong opinion and telling someone else that they reached a different conclusion because they lack the ability to think rationally.

where is that picture Coach posts of the crying baby?

NTamm1215 · #44 11-12-2009, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slotdirt

You know, who did win that nonsense race on Derby day for which Zenyatta was entered and scratched?

Miss Isella over One Caroline.

NT

slotdirt · #45 11-12-2009, 03:00 PM

Ah, that's right. Good thing Zenyatta didn't run there.

CSC · #46 11-12-2009, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

February 16, March 14, April 5, May 1, May 16, June 27, August 2, September 5, those were the dates of her races. I have no idea what you're trying to say and am completely unable to understand why her not running after 9/5 is such a problem to you. It is almost as ridiculous as someone saying Zenyatta can't win HOTY because she didn't start before 5/23.

NT

Basically what I am saying is we wouldn't be debating HOY right now had she raced in the BC, off the top of my head only a handful of horses have won HOY without racing in the BC the last 20 yrs, Point Given and Mineshaft come to mind, and this was not of their choosing due to injuries, if HOY wasn't in consideration I think none of us would care why she didn't show up on the biggest day of racing. That's the crux of it, we all respect both horses, but all of us have our reasons why one is thought of higher than the other, and right now it looks split right down the middle.

Antitrust32 · #47 11-12-2009, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Ah, that's right. Good thing Zenyatta didn't run there.

actually.. I seem to remember a big stretch dual and a very fast finishing time. Could be misremembering though.

slotdirt · #48 11-12-2009, 03:02 PM

I remember that the weather sucked and I didn't have the winner, mostly.

Sightseek · #49 11-12-2009, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I remember that the weather sucked and I didn't have the winner, mostly.

I remember checking to see who Calvin was riding in the Derby after that and saying to myself "no way in hell"

docicu3 · #50 11-12-2009, 03:05 PM

Why is it that so many people fail to take into account that recent events carry a stronger emotional significance than events or races of memories past. At times this is decades but occasionally it's weeks or months. To attach exaggerated significance to the classic compared to other Grade 1's is to by into the nonsense that the BC has the only races of significance during the year.

NTamm1215 · #51 11-12-2009, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC

Basically what I am saying is we wouldn't be debating HOY right now had she raced in the BC, off the top of my head only a handful of horses have won HOY without racing in the BC the last 20 yrs, Point Given and Mineshaft come to mind, and this was not of their choosing due to injuries, if HOY wasn't in consideration I think none of us would care why she didn't show up on the biggest day of racing. That's the crux of it, we all respect both horses, but all of us have our reasons why one is thought of higher than the other, and right now it looks split right down the middle.

You're forgetting something, based on what she had done, Rachel really didn't have to run again. After 9/5 we all knew it was going to take something extraordinary to displace her at the top of the HOTY heap. The difference now is that you think that happened. I don't.

NT

CSC · #52 11-12-2009, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

If Jess didnt buy the horse she would have raced in the Coaching Club Alabama and perhaps the Distaff and most likely would be pointing for a date with AP INDY in Feb 2010

We don't know that for sure, she may not have had the identical campaign, any Trainer, owner who gets in this game wouldn't pass on some salty races, look at Summer Bird's connections. I'm not sure if JJ is getting more credit than he truly deserves.

CSC · #53 11-12-2009, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

You're forgetting something, based on what she had done, Rachel really didn't have to run again. After 9/5 we all knew it was going to take something extraordinary to displace her at the top of the HOTY heap. The difference now is that you think that happened. I don't.

NT

And that's unfortunate because you could probably stage a pay per view event for a RA / Zen matchup, something we can now only speculate on.

randallscott35 · #54 11-12-2009, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

As evidenced by the "vote" on this board and many other racing sites, many think this is a close call. There's a difference between having a strong opinion and telling someone else that they reached a different conclusion because they lack the ability to think rationally.

The same people who voted for Bush in '04 after everyone knew he was a moron.

10 pnt move up · #55 11-12-2009, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

The same people who voted for Bush in '04 after everyone knew he was a moron.

will those same people make the mistake and vote for Obama in 12'...just saying

Revidere · #56 11-12-2009, 03:19 PM

Truth be told Horse of the Year hasn't meant that much since they gave it to John Henry over Slew O'Gold in 1984.

I'm just glad we were able to see both of them run. Each race escalated the "WOW" factor. Now I need Rachel to do it again in 2010.

Before that we need to see Stardom Bound in the Gazelle!

The tale of the tape:

Rachel

Zenyatta

randallscott35 · #57 11-12-2009, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

will those same people make the mistake and vote for Obama in 12'...just saying

I agree.

CSC · #58 11-12-2009, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

will those same people make the mistake and vote for Obama in 12'...just saying

This is how smart I am I have never voted for Bush Jr. nor have I ever voted for Obama.

kgar311 · #59 11-12-2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

will those same people make the mistake and vote for Obama in 12'...just saying

Who ever voted for him the first time wasn't thinking rationally

philcski · #60 11-12-2009, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC

Again, I think this would be great and all had RA raced past Sept 5, and I know I will be reminded of her starting early in the year, her campaign was super up until that point, but in retrospect one would have to wonder which race would we have rather seen her in, The Martha Washington or the BC Classic.

Because the objective at that point was the Kentucky Oaks?

At the start of the year she was the prohibitive favorite for the KY Oaks. No one in their right mind would think she would have gone into the end of the season as the Breeders Cup CLASSIC favorite. The objective at the time was completed... in record fashion, no less. Her KY Oaks may have been the best performance I've ever seen at Churchill Downs, and that's saying a LOT.