Will Less Stud Income Help Keep Horses Racing - Page 3

GenuineRisk · #41 03-08-2010, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

It has never been possible to make a profit racing. Most long term owners are looking to lose less, not make more. There are other occasions where you can make a windfall though. Having a live three year old at this time of the year can be sold for big bucks. A graded stakes winning filly still has value. But it is just too volitile of an investment with too much luck needed to be considered a profitable venture. At least doing it without committing crimes.

If that's the case, then, why worry about whether new owners to the game are going to make money or not, and do what you can to keep the stars on the track? On the one hand, you say, we need to attract new owners and keep them so they need to be able to attempt to make as much money as they can breeding. On the other hand, you say it's never been possible to make money racing no matter what (I think you're right, by the way).

Depending on breeding to keep racing afloat results, I think, in inflated sales prices because the horses are being sold as breeding prospects from the start.

Poor horse racing- depending on wealthy dynasties, then breeding syndicates, and now slots. It's really the ultimate charity case, isn't it?

Cannon Shell · #42 03-08-2010, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

Crimes of passion are sexy... He is 32 and killing it.. He is now expanding into better stock.. he will win graded stakes shortly and IF people dom't catch up they will be training ponys for bday partys soon.. Criminal or not he is earning without risk

Yeah sure

Cannon Shell · #43 03-08-2010, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

It's the Blood horse not Time mag.. Please those are funny dollars as well.. A crappy and I mean crappy two year stallion bred 200 plus mares at 12500 advertised..OK call it 180 at 6k that is still way better then the bum would have earned racing

Again freddy he probably bred closer to 60 mares at 6k. Shareholders dont pay twice.

Cannon Shell · #44 03-08-2010, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

Challenge...with the red flag...Your math is suspect

Here let me explain without delving into the the numbers which overwhelmingly prove my point. If he was making money, he wouldnt have given up so easily.

freddymo · #45 03-08-2010, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Yeah sure

Chuck its 3 years of this shiiiit and nobody has caught on including NY..There was this guy named Bob Frankel who had such a career.. Nobody caught him(may he reat in peace) so now you are hoping ness isnt the next Frankel.. Between you and me what is he doing? It's Friggin magic or genius

freddymo · #46 03-08-2010, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Here let me explain without delving into the the numbers which overwhelmingly prove my point. If he was making money, he wouldnt have given up so easily.

I think the math is overwhelming in HIS favor.. He was paying 35 40 a day for training an how much was a shockwave machine and human grade DMSO.. He was tossed

Cannon Shell · #47 03-08-2010, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

If that's the case, then, why worry about whether new owners to the game are going to make money or not, and do what you can to keep the stars on the track? On the one hand, you say, we need to attract new owners and keep them so they need to be able to attempt to make as much money as they can breeding. On the other hand, you say it's never been possible to make money racing no matter what (I think you're right, by the way).

Depending on breeding to keep racing afloat results, I think, in inflated sales prices because the horses are being sold as breeding prospects from the start.

Poor horse racing- depending on wealthy dynasties, then breeding syndicates, and now slots. It's really the ultimate charity case, isn't it?

If you had the money would you buy a racehorse?

Cannon Shell · #48 03-08-2010, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

I think the math is overwhelming in HIS favor.. He was paying 35 40 a day for training an how much was a shockwave machine and human grade DMSO.. He was tossed

He was paying way more than that freddy. He had to pay all the employees, etc. he was paying the costs of a trainer, not an owner. he paid all the costs plus salaries plus paid for the land and vans etc...

Cannon Shell · #49 03-08-2010, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

Chuck its 3 years of this shiiiit and nobody has caught on including NY..There was this guy named Bob Frankel who had such a career.. Nobody caught him(may he reat in peace) so now you are hoping ness isnt the next Frankel.. Between you and me what is he doing? It's Friggin magic or genius

The guy didnt even have workmans comp insurance last year at Tampa. He is cheating plus preying on small tracks with a monied owner. What good horses does he have? Frankel just rolled over in his grave.

The Indomitable DrugS · #50 03-08-2010, 08:15 PM

Ness was a VERY mediocre trainer until he had a sudden epiphany in Jan of 2007.

freddymo · #51 03-08-2010, 08:15 PM

He was dealing with scum and paid them as such.. He took 3 mil out of the state X Philly Park and he still has the residual value of the horses.. He made a lot of good claims..More good then bad and most neutral.. The bad horses made al ot of purse money.. The reason Beattie and friends had him tossed was because he was taken 'their" purse money... Ness is part of the team so they leave him be..

Cannon Shell · #52 03-08-2010, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

He was dealing with scum and paid them as such.. He took 3 mil out of the state X Philly Park and he still has the residual value of the horses.. He made a lot of good claims..More good then bad and most neutral.. The bad horses made al ot of purse money.. The reason Beattie and friends had him tossed was because he was taken 'their" purse money... Ness is part of the team so they leave him be..

He lost his ass.

freddymo · #53 03-08-2010, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The guy didnt even have workmans comp insurance last year at Tampa. He is cheating plus preying on small tracks with a monied owner. What good horses does he have? Frankel just rolled over in his grave.

Frankel, the legend, started like Ness. He will win graded stakes very soon and he will be a major force in racing UNLESS he is caught...Frankel never was and continued his rule on racing until his demise..

I loved Frankel...I think the Ness situation is very similar.. Frankel cheated and was the best cheater ever and because he was the very best got great owners to give him great stock..The tuna Fish didnt even care he was robbing him until it became so obvious he pitched him

freddymo · #54 03-08-2010, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He lost his ass.

He had no money to loss his ass.. You think this was Dinny? he is a working guy.You think the mortgage buz in NH and Vermont is killing it the last 3 years

randallscott35 · #55 03-08-2010, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

Frankel, the legend, started like Ness. He will win graded stakes very soon and he will be a major force in racing UNLESS he is caught...Frankel never was and continued his rule on racing until his demise..

I loved Frankel...I think the Ness situation is very similar.. Frankel cheated and was the best cheater ever and because he was the very best got great owners to give him great stock..The tuna Fish didnt even care he was robbing him until it became so obvious he pitched him

I agree though I doubt many here will admit it.

Cannon Shell · #56 03-08-2010, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

He had no money to loss his ass.. You think this was Dinny? he is a working guy.You think the mortgage buz in NH and Vermont is killing it the last 3 years

http://www.boston.com/sports/other_s..._money/?page=4

I know how much it costs. He lost. Alot.

Cannon Shell · #57 03-08-2010, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

Frankel, the legend, started like Ness. He will win graded stakes very soon and he will be a major force in racing UNLESS he is caught...Frankel never was and continued his rule on racing until his demise..

I loved Frankel...I think the Ness situation is very similar.. Frankel cheated and was the best cheater ever and because he was the very best got great owners to give him great stock..The tuna Fish didnt even care he was robbing him until it became so obvious he pitched him

There is virtually no relation to what Frankel did and what ness has done except they both involve horses. Frankel was the leading trainer at the leading track in the US training against great horseman. He claimed and bought horses cheap and made them into top contenders in NY when NY was clearly the best racing in the country. Ness is winning at Canterbury, thistledowns and tampa. You can say what you want about Frankel and cheating but the guy was a great horseman. Ness?

freddymo · #58 03-08-2010, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

http://www.boston.com/sports/other_s..._money/?page=4

I know how much it costs. He lost. Alot.

My crime is I made more money at Penn National last year [$3.1 million] than any one owner made from any other track. It’s a tiny little racetrack in the middle of nowhere. So it was real simple. They wanted me out because they wanted to cut up that $3.1 million pie themselves.’’

randallscott35 · #59 03-08-2010, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

There is virtually no relation to what Frankel did and what ness has done except they both involve horses. Frankel was the leading trainer at the leading track in the US training against great horseman. He claimed and bought horses cheap and made them into top contenders in NY when NY was clearly the best racing in the country. Ness is winning at Canterbury, thistledowns and tampa. You can say what you want about Frankel and cheating but the guy was a great horseman. Ness?

Bonds was great too. And then he got better.

freddymo · #60 03-08-2010, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

There is virtually no relation to what Frankel did and what ness has done except they both involve horses. Frankel was the leading trainer at the leading track in the US training against great horseman. He claimed and bought horses cheap and made them into top contenders in NY when NY was clearly the best racing in the country. Ness is winning at Canterbury, thistledowns and tampa. You can say what you want about Frankel and cheating but the guy was a great horseman. Ness?

Frankel was a HoF horseman and a HoF cheat.. When you are both its an excellent recipe for success..

Ness bought a few 2 year olds training..the kid is magic and will be one of the top 5 trainers in the country in 5 years