UPDATE: State meets obligation to NYRA; Legislature OK's advance

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

But what do the members of the NYRA Board of Trustees see the mission as being? I doubt Phipps sees the mission of NYRA to create revenue for the state.

Phipp's has a regally bred(arent they all per DRF) MDN going Sunday at MP I guess Shug thought it was a better spot then Belmont..lol

[pointman]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

But what do the members of the NYRA Board of Trustees see the mission as being? I doubt Phipps sees the mission of NYRA to create revenue for the state.

I think that you have a misunderstanding as to the Board of Directors role on a not for profit corporation in NY. I am a member on not for profit board in NY and it is not the role of the Board of Directors to financially support the corporation. Rather, the role is to deal with the State in negotiating and obtaining the necessary funds to operate and then to ensure that the funds are being used in a proper fashion. I am pretty sure that if NYRA were running with excess currency they would add the same to purses as they did at Saratoga the last couple of years. Whether the board members are wealthy or not is irrelevant, it is not their role to fund NYRA and it would likely be a conflict on a not for profit board for a member to have a finacial stake in the corporation.

NYRA is doing nothing more than asking the State to live up to the obligations that the State took on when NYRA deeded more than $1 billion of real estate to NY State. As Steve pointed out, the notices are required by NY State law in advance of any layoffs. NYRA is only fulfilling its requirements by reserving action it will be forced to take if the State continues to fail to fulfill it obligations to NYRA.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Do you really think it is in the best interests of NYRA for its board to fund it in leiu of money owed to them from the state and OTB? That seems like political suicide.

It's a better alternative to shutting down. Admittedly, neither is very attractive, but if they shut down, I'm guessing some genius in state government will be looking at some of those performance metrics that Bruno had placed in the franchise extension, and then try to take the franchise from NYRA. And the litigation that will follow would last forever.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Phipp's has a regally bred(arent they all per DRF) MDN going Sunday at MP I guess Shug thought it was a better spot then Belmont..lol

I wonder if PJ Campo told him not to bring the horse back to Belmont.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

So NYRA told the State in advance that there plan for operating in 08-10 would fail to be cash flow positive and as such the state said don't worry about it you keep losing money and will fund it because you told us so..Is that the way it happened if so the idiots polictians that said that they would bankroll a flawed business should be arrested.

Come on first NYRA is getting money and the horrendous publicity they continue to spew is madding.. HI fans and gamblers we are going out of business after are biggest purse day of the year and if you want to deposit money in your NYRA account please dail 1800 BIG AVLT. How the heck do you run a business promoting its life and joy in one breathe and telling your fans and customers its dying on the other. Why are the publizing all this negative stuff with such vigor? I really hope NYRA gets to operate and be successful!! This stuff just is foolish

Freddy the flaw is the states control over NYRA's ability to proceed with its VLT plans for 9 years and its harrassment and politically motivated campaign against it over the last 7 years. The other flaw is the state run entity NYCOTB failing to pay NYRA the money it legally owes them. If NYRA could simply sue NYCOTB and/or shut off the signal to them that problem would have been solved years ago. The state made the deal with its eyes wide open. What exactly is NYRA supposed to do? Say things are peachy?

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by pointman

I think that you have a misunderstanding as to the Board of Directors role on a not for profit corporation in NY. I am a member on not for profit board in NY and it is not the role of the Board of Directors to financially support the corporation. Rather, the role is to deal with the State in negotiating and obtaining the necessary funds to operate and then to ensure that the funds are being used in a proper fashion. I am pretty sure that if NYRA were running with excess currency they would add the same to purses as they did at Saratoga the last couple of years. Whether the board members are wealthy or not is irrelevant, it is not their role to fund NYRA and it would likely be a conflict on a not for profit board for a member to have a finacial stake in the corporation.

NYRA is doing nothing more than asking the State to live up to the obligations that the State took on when NYRA deeded more than $1 billion of real estate to NY State. As Steve pointed out, the notices are required by NY State law in advance of any layoffs. NYRA is only fulfilling its requirements by reserving action it will be forced to take if the State continues to fail to fulfill it obligations to NYRA.

I also sit on the Board of a non-profit, and there are a whole host of tasks fulfilled by Board members. There is nothing legally prohibiting the Board members from financially propping up such an entity. That's why such boards often have so-called "money seats" on them, albeit as it related to the task of fund-raising for the organization. If there were some concerns about how to structure a loan to the organization (that's not the same as having a financial stake in the organization) without running afoul of potential conflict of interest rules, I'm sure that NYRA could run it past Getnick & Getnick, their high-priced "integrity counsel" (if they are looking at places to cut expenses, there'd be a good place to start).

I completely understand that the WARN notices had to go out just in case they do shut down.

[freddymo]

The thought that NYRA is any different than other sadly underfunded and ignored State obligations is flawed.. I want NYRA to succeed I dont want them to fail. I want great racing in NY but that isnt the point. I understand your points and agree NYRA is in a bad place. You still need to be able to run a product on its on merits and not on the possiblity of VLT's.
BTW I find it interesting that 2 of the most successful african american businessmen in the world are 2 of the 5 potential bidders. You think it is going to be easy for any of these potential bidders to get 400 mil to the State in a snap. What happens if the ecnomy takes another shiit in 9 months and the process continues to be delayed.. NYRA just keeps on coming to the State?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

I also sit on the Board of a non-profit, and there are a whole host of tasks fulfilled by Board members. There is nothing legally prohibiting the Board members from financially propping up such an entity. That's why such boards often have so-called "money seats" on them, albeit as it related to the task of fund-raising for the organization. If there were some concerns about how to structure a loan to the organization (that's not the same as having a financial stake in the organization) without running afoul of potential conflict of interest rules, I'm sure that NYRA could run it past Getnick & Getnick, their high-priced "integrity counsel" (if they are looking at places to cut expenses, there'd be a good place to start).

I completely understand that the WARN notices had to go out just in case they do shut down.

You think Dinny could spot them 17 mil till the VLT's come? I bet even 53rd st bank would float tem 20 mil if Phipps co signed..lol

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

The thought that NYRA is any different than other sadly underfunded and ignored State obligations is flawed.. I want NYRA to succeed I dont want them to fail. I want great racing in NY but that isn't the point. I understand your points and agree NYRA is in a bad place. You still need to be able to run a product on its on merits and not on the possibility of VLT's.
BTW I find it interesting that 2 of the most successful african american businessmen in the world are 2 of the 5 potential bidders. You think it is going to be easy for any of these potential bidders to get 400 mil to the State in a snap. What happens if the ecnomy takes another shiit in 9 months and the process continues to be delayed.. NYRA just keeps on coming to the State?

That isnt true. NYRA has provided tremendous revenue streams to the state and deeded them 1 billion dollars worth of land. That makes them a whole lot different.

Despite the evidence to the contrary you and many others refuse to see that VLT's ARE are a piece of it's "merits". The state passed a law in 2001 allowing specific business to have these things. NYRA is one of those businesses. It's competition (both in state and out of state) has VLT's. That makes it a valid issue. And you cant just ignore the fact that NYCOTB refuses to pay. That is a significant amount of money to lose.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by freddymo

The thought that NYRA is any different than other sadly underfunded and ignored State obligations is flawed.. I want NYRA to succeed I dont want them to fail. I want great racing in NY but that isnt the point. I understand your points and agree NYRA is in a bad place. You still need to be able to run a product on its on merits and not on the possiblity of VLT's.
BTW I find it interesting that 2 of the most successful african american businessmen in the world are 2 of the 5 potential bidders. You think it is going to be easy for any of these potential bidders to get 400 mil to the State in a snap. What happens if the ecnomy takes another shiit in 9 months and the process continues to be delayed.. NYRA just keeps on coming to the State?

If NYRA was being paid by OTB they would not be asking for this money, they are only asking for the amount of money owed to them by OTB which indicates to me that NYRA can be self sufficient. As Chuck pointed out, NYRA would ordinarily just cut off the signal to NYC OTB, but they can't under NY State law

As for your other point, I haven't heard Yonkers or Saratoga harness asking for any money from the State and they make a fraction of what NYRA does off of betting pools. I seriously doubt that NYRA will need anything from the State once the casino is running, it is hard to believe that a casino will fail in Ozone Park, New York.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

I also sit on the Board of a non-profit, and there are a whole host of tasks fulfilled by Board members. There is nothing legally prohibiting the Board members from financially propping up such an entity. That's why such boards often have so-called "money seats" on them, albeit as it related to the task of fund-raising for the organization. If there were some concerns about how to structure a loan to the organization (that's not the same as having a financial stake in the organization) without running afoul of potential conflict of interest rules, I'm sure that NYRA could run it past Getnick & Getnick, their high-priced "integrity counsel" (if they are looking at places to cut expenses, there'd be a good place to start).

I completely understand that the WARN notices had to go out just in case they do shut down.

Why should board members put up their own money when the State is financially obligated to float NYRA until the casino is up and running? And if the State is not living up to their obligation to NYRA, what would lead any board member to believe that their loan is secure?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by pointman

If NYRA was being paid by OTB they would not be asking for this money, they are only asking for the amount of money owed to them by OTB which indicates to me that NYRA can be self sufficient. As Chuck pointed out, NYRA would ordinarily just cut off the signal to NYC OTB, but they can't under NY State law

As for your other point, I haven't heard Yonkers or Saratoga harness asking for any money from the State and they make a fraction of what NYRA does off of betting pools. I seriously doubt that NYRA will need anything from the State once the casino is running, it is hard to believe that a casino will fail in Ozone Park, New York.

So you repping that NYRA's business model without VLT's is viable? You are right Ozone Park will support people getting wied out very well. Again I would love NYRA to do well. I wished they ripped out 75 dates and concentrated the purse money but they were beaten to the punch. Sunday's card is unbettable even if MP wasnt running a terrific card.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

That isnt true. NYRA has provided tremendous revenue streams to the state and deeded them 1 billion dollars worth of land. That makes them a whole lot different.

Despite the evidence to the contrary you and many others refuse to see that VLT's ARE are a piece of it's "merits". The state passed a law in 2001 allowing specific business to have these things. NYRA is one of those businesses. It's competition (both in state and out of state) has VLT's. That makes it a valid issue. And you cant just ignore the fact that NYCOTB refuses to pay. That is a significant amount of money to lose.

2001 is forever ago. You have to let this go quoting 2001 laws that have not been implemented is crazy. The world has changed so much since what was passed in 2001. What good is saying abortion is legal if nobody got one for 10 years because of one thing or another?

BTW NYRA didnt give the government a PENNY gamblers did all NYRA did was oversee the transfer from pocket A to pocket B... Giving them a bunch of credit for there horrible operations 9 years ago is invalid.. The current guys have been ok but lets not forget just how sorted NYRA PAST is!

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by pointman

Why should board members put up their own money when the State is financially obligated to float NYRA until the casino is up and running? And if the State is not living up to their obligation to NYRA, what would lead any board member to believe that their loan is secure?

NYRA is no different from any business with cash-flow problems. In this regard, it really isn't relevant who's not paying them. It's really a simple question: either NYRA and its board can be completely dependent upon the State to solve their short-term cash problem, or they can try to address their cash issues through other means. Having fought as hard as they did for the franchise, I can't believe that the only answer to their current situation is to shut it down if the State doesn't come through with the cash.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by pointman

Why should board members put up their own money when the State is financially obligated to float NYRA until the casino is up and running? And if the State is not living up to their obligation to NYRA, what would lead any board member to believe that their loan is secure?

You right but you make it sound like the State is holding up there obligation in every other arena. They aren't! schools are failing people are losing there jobs and basic things are being washed away. Because NYRA has a piece of paper that saying the State is obligated to fund them is different then basic implied financial obligations of State government.. Come on cops schools and teachers have to go behind NYRA because they have a piece of paper.

[pmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

NYRA is no different from any business with cash-flow problems. In this regard, it really isn't relevant who's not paying them. It's really a simple question: either NYRA and its board can be completely dependent upon the State to solve their short-term cash problem, or they can try to address their cash issues through other means. Having fought as hard as they did for the franchise, I can't believe that the only answer to their current situation is to shut it down if the State doesn't come through with the cash.

I don't know. I would say NYRA is quite different as their business plan (assumption of VLT), ties NYRA's survival directly to the State. The State and OTB are certainly undesirable bedfellows, but the reality is that they are NYRA's business partners. If the State isn't willing to bridge the gap for now, it can't bode well for the future.

I also don't know how "short term" this need really is. If they get this $17M and OTB screws them some more and State delays VLT's another 2 years, what then?

Ultimately, I assume the State will come up with the $17M. Hopefully, getting NYS on the hook a bit motivates them a bit to get OTB/VLT on track.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

NYRA is no different from any business with cash-flow problems. In this regard, it really isn't relevant who's not paying them. It's really a simple question: either NYRA and its board can be completely dependent upon the State to solve their short-term cash problem, or they can try to address their cash issues through other means. Having fought as hard as they did for the franchise, I can't believe that the only answer to their current situation is to shut it down if the State doesn't come through with the cash.

NYRA is different because they are a State entity. Unlike other businesses, I doubt NYRA can go just to a bank and take out a $17 million loan. And if they did, where in their budget will be the money to pay the interest? When I joined the board of the organization I was on, we were in serious cash flow problems for two reasons, first the County significantly delayed payments forcing the organization to take out loans which created interest which was not in the budget. They had to pay salaries somehow. Second, a creative head of the day to day operations had just been fired who had cleaverly (and legally) pilfered the organization out of money. We got the county to agree to pay the interest in return for a promise of timely payments and were forced to make severe budgetary restrictions including many layoffs that were painful for years until we righted the ship.

If the State does not give NYRA the money, they really have nowhere to get the money from. Hence, their only real option is to shut down. I can assure you owners and trainers will not race their horses with the promise that they will be paid in the next 6 months to 1 year. I fail to see where you think NYRA can drum up the money to continue operating when they are not receiving money they are entitled to from NYC OTB which would float their operations.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by freddymo

You right but you make it sound like the State is holding up there obligation in every other arena. They aren't! schools are failing people are losing there jobs and basic things are being washed away. Because NYRA has a piece of paper that saying the State is obligated to fund them is different then basic implied financial obligations of State government.. Come on cops schools and teachers have to go behind NYRA because they have a piece of paper.

Unlike some of schools and cops, NYRA has been paying a vig to the State for years just for the privilege of operating which is why they are entitled to help from the State. Even the dumb idiots NY State has elected know they cannot let NYRA fail. Don't think for a second that the State hasn't gotten its cut of the betting action for a long time.

Further, cops and schools have created much of their problems through their unions which refuse to let go of unproductive employees and refuse to renegotiate ridiculous benefits which they do not deserve in this economy.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by pointman

NYRA is different because they are a State entity. Unlike other businesses, I doubt NYRA can go just to a bank and take out a $17 million loan. And if they did, where in their budget will be the money to pay the interest?

This is not true any more. Before 2008, they were a quasi-state agency. Now, they are a not-for-profit. I do not believe there is any legal impediment to NYRA getting a loan from a private institution (subject, possibly, to any oversight boards). As for how would they pay the interest, I'm sure there are expenses that could be cut (d-barn, off-season training facilities are two that have already been discussed but not implemented).

[pmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by pointman

NYRA is different because they are a State entity. Unlike other businesses, I doubt NYRA can go just to a bank and take out a $17 million loan.

Nick,

I believe NYRA is now a Not-for-Profit organization, no longer a state entity. Accrodingly, they can certianly access working capital given collateral and cash flow. However, the current state of limbo leaves them with much on neither...