Shirreffs says Zenyatta deserves '10 Horse of the Year

[alysheba4]

cannon, as a trainer, do you think there is a possibility she has to be pampered
or is it a case of them being so hung up on the win streak they just decided to take the least amount of chances?

[johnny pinwheel]

Originally Posted by alysheba4

who cares.

right???? this is where i laugh out loud. theres probably half a dozen connections that feel they deserve horse of the year. happens every year. anyone that follows racing knows this horse is in the running. so what if the guy says they deserve it......its some kind of a crime....i guess.....who cares? then these people come up with all kinds of crap...."oh shes not running next month"..."punch him in the face" and all the absolutely brilliant responses...i thought most of the morons hung out in that political thread....i was wrong. then they are making fun of the guy thats not popular....who cares again? thats a badge of honor with the garbage i'm reading here.....lol

[JDank34]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I find it odd that people say this over and over and it couldnt be further from the truth. The sport is not starved for stars. In the last few years there have been quite a few "stars"; Smarty Jones, Big Brown, Curlin, RA, Zenyatta. Now they are only stars in the current climate because while very nice horses, their records dont stack up to the greats of yesteryear. However all got far more than the normal media coverage usually afforded to racehorses. Of course despite this and "all the good that Zenyatta" supposedly has done for rcing, the numbers continue to trend downwards.

And the idea that Zenyatta was campaigned on the cupcake tour for HER own good is laughable.

And I can't speak for anyone else there is zero chance that I would have not challenged her if I had the chance to choose her races.

Chuck I respect your opinion as someone who has made a successful career in this industry. My comments about a dying sport and need for more starpower were not articulated well. My basic idea is that I am a 31yo sales and marketing professional, who attends CD regularly and gambles over 250 days a year. If I ran my business the same way the leaders of your industry run theirs I would be living on the streets of Shivley! They DON'T get it. I know this is nothing new to you or most on DT, but instead of the greed giant that is Kee charging $10 to park, $5 to enter, etc, etc, etc I wish people would focus on how to promote an undefeated star to the audiences that don't spend every spare minute combing sites, blogs, forms, etc to get our facing fix, ie the casual Saturday afternoon fan. I love this sport and have a passion for it and I have exactly ONE friend my age who feels the same and we live in Central KY, the supposed mecca of the sport. What does that say? Nothing to us, because we already know, but Sausage Man Evans or Nicholson refuse to listen because all they care about is MORE MORE MORE. This is a rambling mess and there was supposed to be a comment about promoting Zenyatta somewhere, obviously I am not as eloquent as I need to be! Good day.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by alysheba4

cannon, as a trainer, do you think there is a possibility she has to be pampered
or is it a case of them being so hung up on the win streak they just decided to take the least amount of chances?

Grade 1 winner and winning streak? go figure

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by alysheba4

cannon, as a trainer, do you think there is a possibility she has to be pampered
or is it a case of them being so hung up on the win streak they just decided to take the least amount of chances?

Option 2

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by JDank34

Chuck I respect your opinion as someone who has made a successful career in this industry. My comments about a dying sport and need for more starpower were not articulated well. My basic idea is that I am a 31yo sales and marketing professional, who attends CD regularly and gambles over 250 days a year. If I ran my business the same way the leaders of your industry run theirs I would be living on the streets of Shivley! They DON'T get it. I know this is nothing new to you or most on DT, but instead of the greed giant that is Kee charging $10 to park, $5 to enter, etc, etc, etc I wish people would focus on how to promote an undefeated star to the audiences that don't spend every spare minute combing sites, blogs, forms, etc to get our facing fix, ie the casual Saturday afternoon fan. I love this sport and have a passion for it and I have exactly ONE friend my age who feels the same and we live in Central KY, the supposed mecca of the sport. What does that say? Nothing to us, because we already know, but Sausage Man Evans or Nicholson refuse to listen because all they care about is MORE MORE MORE. This is a rambling mess and there was supposed to be a comment about promoting Zenyatta somewhere, obviously I am not as eloquent as I need to be! Good day.

I agree with most of what you are saying. But the industry's ills are never going to be solved because there is a really good horse that is promoted well. You are 100% correct in suggesting that greed has done a lot of damage to this sport (and not just on the part of the tracks). What I dont understand is why we aren't promting the fact that you can bring a little bit of money to the track and leave with alot. Horses have a short shelf life and in the majority of cases always did. Zenyatta will soon be forgotten by most. But a guy who wins 5k at the track ? He will be back. I guarantee that. The pretty horse people? Yeah they will follow a bit after the retirement of their current love but they will look to find some reason (whips, drugs, PG1985, etc) not to follow the game soon afterwards.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by johnny pinwheel

right???? this is where i laugh out loud. theres probably half a dozen connections that feel they deserve horse of the year. happens every year. anyone that follows racing knows this horse is in the running. so what if the guy says they deserve it......its some kind of a crime....i guess.....who cares? then these people come up with all kinds of crap...."oh shes not running next month"..."punch him in the face" and all the absolutely brilliant responses...i thought most of the morons hung out in that political thread....i was wrong. then they are making fun of the guy thats not popular....who cares again? thats a badge of honor with the garbage i'm reading here.....lol

your post, and another i saw recently by someone else, makes me wonder why some bother coming here? why do people hang around DT if it's so insufferable?

as for zenyatta, what has she done this year that's HOY material? she didn't win 19 races this year. she won a few vs lackluster competition in restricted races. how does that make her eligible?

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I agree with most of what you are saying. But the industry's ills are never going to be solved because there is a really good horse that is promoted well. You are 100% correct in suggesting that greed has done a lot of damage to this sport (and not just on the part of the tracks). What I dont understand is why we aren't promting the fact that you can bring a little bit of money to the track and leave with alot. Horses have a short shelf life and in the majority of cases always did. Zenyatta will soon be forgotten by most. But a guy who wins 5k at the track ? He will be back. I guarantee that. The pretty horse people? Yeah they will follow a bit after the retirement of their current love but they will look to find some reason (whips, drugs, PG1985, etc) not to follow the game soon afterwards.

Need to make it easier to do that. That's not being done. So, don't expect any improvement (until it changes.) Take-out must be slashed. Could start by not giving out 180k to the horse who beats only 5 other horses. Right now, Craps has the %. You've got the game, but they've got the better deal. That difference needs to be reduced. The reason the sport struggles is easy to state: Insufficient reward for the difficulty of the task.

[2Hot4TV]

Scuds is right "Insufficient reward for the difficulty of the task.". The industry is doomed to fail when it is impossible to own a horse and make a profit.

Hell you dont even have a fighting chance at breaking even when you have a horse in training and racing, so what are you going to load in the starting gate as the old racing families pass away as they are now? Who is going to replace them with large stables?

[trackrat59]

I think she backs out of the BCC too.

[geeker2]

"She’s going to go off to the pasture and she’s either 19-for-20 or 20-for-20. I think she’s going to be okay.”

Yup... sounds like they are telegraphing a clear message that they plan to back out

[declansharbor]

Originally Posted by trackrat59

I think she backs out of the BCC too.

I have a moped I'd like to sell you, it's only $37,875!! ROCK (lay off them) bottom price!

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by monipenny

A time 4 honoring yourself will soon be at a end. The plain truth of it is that Sheriff's body of work is brilliant:All-time winningest mare who has remained undefeated through 3 yrs of un-interrupted training practically.
Guy has a Kentucky Derby win on his resume w/ less then average animal of any quality that's won the Derby, but just ask Pletcher, Mott, Shug, Zito, Baffert, if they really give a flip what we or you really think.The aforementioned gentleman have won the big one and the others on the list have wanted just a chance but failed.
Sheriff's is now a private trainer for mostly a few select clients who want nothing other then to have there immence egos flattered by winning the big one's and gaining national recognition right? You think winning the Derby w/ Giacamo hurt his sales or left him wanting. HTFN, he just said thank you very much for the roses and went about having his name engeaved into history as a Ky Derby winning owner. Not bad in my book
Sheriff's and his wife who happens to be racing manager 4 the Moss' just go along there merry way winning races and garnering jealous rages of fits from the minions who despise them so.

Just to keep such a HUGE horse from being hurt is a feat in its self and I wonder if she would still be racing if she were on dirt.(her best surface)

[classhandicapper]

Quite honestly, I've been saying the same things as John Shirreffs all year and don't really have a major problem with the handling. IMO had she been east coast based and stayed home and faced just mares even though there was better racing outside of NY, no one would be saying a thing.

IMO there is one major issue that makes this debate so heated.

People have very strong and different opinions about synthetic racing in general, the quality of racing in CA overall, how best to measure the ability of synthetic horses because the racing is so different than dirt racing, and how to compare synthetic (or even turf horses) to dirt horses on a relative basis.

The problem for them this year is that the CA mare division was atrocious other than St Trinians and no one showed up at the Apple Blossom. So she beat absolutely nothing all year. It's impossible to make a case for HOTY in 2010 unless they win the Classic or run an outstanding race and finish ahead of all the other contenders for the title and the winner is a major upset.

[Left Bank]

Originally Posted by Thunder Gulch

With the level of competition, maybe they could give her the Claiming Crown instead.

But I bet there may be a horse or two at Canterbury that could do her in.

[2Hot4TV]

IMO there is one major issue that makes this debate so heated.

Most people LOVE to HATE.

Its a character flaw, due to poor breeding.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Wait so now she doesn't even have to win and she still would get it....The whole gang surrounding this horse couldn't be less likable if they tried.

QR, Blame and Lookin At Luckys resumes are all good enough to win HOY if they win the Classic.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

Right now, Blind Luck deserves it more than Zenyatta.

I think Z is 5-10 lenghts faster/better on any surface. Funny BL finds ways to lose. I think at least twice this year? Her wins are Kinda like Zenyatta, barley wins half the time.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

What bothers me the most about Team Zenyatta is they think everyone has the horse racing acumen of Smooth Operator.

This is the team that was responsible for the travelling over the rockies comment earlier. Then Rail Trip was the highest mountain. Now regardless of her finish, in the race they coddled her for all year, she deserves HOY? Amazing.

HOY isn't some kind of lifetime achievement award. That's what the Hall of Fame is for and she'll be in there in due time. HOY is for the horse who has accomplished the most over the course of the year on the track. IMO a case could be made that even with a win in the Classic she doesn't deserve the award this year.

Anyone who doesn't think Team Zenyatta doesn't care about HOY is fooling themselves. They desperately want it, to fuel their own ego.

I agree with most of your points, but.... For a while Rail Trip was the highest mountain out there, sure the connections are lame and should have won the Pacific Classic, but whatever... A lot of people really liked Rail Trip, and thought he would move way up on dirt, BTW being one of them.....What Rail Trip has done since, should not take away from his form when they did duck him. Win the Classic and still not be HOY, that is totally absurd. The group is deep, all the major players will be there.... If she runs 2-3 and anyone but QR, Blame, L@L win it, she still might be HOY.

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by geeker2

"She’s going to go off to the pasture and she’s either 19-for-20 or 20-for-20. I think she’s going to be okay.”

Yup... sounds like they are telegraphing a clear message that they plan to back out

I'm thinking it's like the use of foreshadowing in film.

It could mean if she loses the BC but it could, in Zenyattaspeak*, mean something else.


* TM pending.