Crist: Zenyatta needs to earn title on track - Page 3

blackthroatedwind · #41 10-30-2010, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomerS

If she does win, and I dont think she has much of a chance at all, she does deserve an amazing amount of praise. Not greatest horse ever but much more then the haters are prepared or would give.

I have not encountered one single person that " hates " Zenyatta. Not a soul. What I have encountered are a lot of loose cannons that in their fear of seeing Zenyatta accurately assessed have labeled all those with an unbiased opinion of her to be " haters " and have resorted to as many diversionary tactics as they could possibly dream up. They obfuscate the truth by ignoring competition, surface, race restrictions, and mostly by introducing complete non-sequitors on a continual basis ( i.e. last year's HOY Award and most notably Rachel Alexandra ). Karl Rove would be proud.

Zenyatta is a VERY good horse. However, she will never be as good, based on her actual racetrack performances, as some want us to believe. Nothing wrong with that, as some want us to believe she is the greatest horse of all time, and nothing could be further from the truth. An impressive win in this BC Classic would prove a lot, and certainly elevate her lofty status, but by the same token, a mediocre performance should be viewed as exposing her weaknesses that heretofore have been either ignored or strongly denied.

What the hell is wrong with being an exceptional racehorse? Why is it so important to manufacture praise that isn't necessarily warranted to enjoy talent these days? And why are those that question the overzealousness suddenly " haters " when they are actually nothing more than realists?

Scav · #42 10-30-2010, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I have not encountered one single person that " hates " Zenyatta. Not a soul. What I have encountered are a lot of loose cannons that in their fear of seeing Zenyatta accurately assessed have labeled all those with an unbiased opinion of her to be " haters " and have resorted to as many diversionary tactics as they could possibly dream up. They obfuscate the truth by ignoring competition, surface, race restrictions, and mostly by introducing complete non-sequitors on a continual basis ( i.e. last year's HOY Award and most notably Rachel Alexandra ). Karl Rove would be proud.

Zenyatta is a VERY good horse. However, she will never be as good, based on her actual racetrack performances, as some want us to believe. Nothing wrong with that, as some want us to believe she is the greatest horse of all time, and nothing could be further from the truth. An impressive win in this BC Classic would prove a lot, and certainly elevate her lofty status, but by the same token, a mediocre performance should be viewed as exposing her weaknesses that heretofore have been either ignored or strongly denied.

What the hell is wrong with being an exceptional racehorse? Why is it so important to manufacture praise that isn't necessarily warranted to enjoy talent these days? And why are those that question the overzealousness suddenly " haters " when they are actually nothing more than realists?

Well said

jms62 · #43 10-30-2010, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I have not encountered one single person that " hates " Zenyatta. Not a soul. What I have encountered are a lot of loose cannons that in their fear of seeing Zenyatta accurately assessed have labeled all those with an unbiased opinion of her to be " haters " and have resorted to as many diversionary tactics as they could possibly dream up. They obfuscate the truth by ignoring competition, surface, race restrictions, and mostly by introducing complete non-sequitors on a continual basis ( i.e. last year's HOY Award and most notably Rachel Alexandra ). Karl Rove would be proud.

Zenyatta is a VERY good horse. However, she will never be as good, based on her actual racetrack performances, as some want us to believe. Nothing wrong with that, as some want us to believe she is the greatest horse of all time, and nothing could be further from the truth. An impressive win in this BC Classic would prove a lot, and certainly elevate her lofty status, but by the same token, a mediocre performance should be viewed as exposing her weaknesses that heretofore have been either ignored or strongly denied.

What the hell is wrong with being an exceptional racehorse? Why is it so important to manufacture praise that isn't necessarily warranted to enjoy talent these days? And why are those that question the overzealousness suddenly " haters " when they are actually nothing more than realists?

And what happens if she doesn't run due to a last minute "issue"? I just have that feeling...

Bigsmc · #44 10-30-2010, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jms62

And what happens if she doesn't run due to a last minute "issue"? I just have that feeling...

Then she retires as a "VERY good horse", as Andy stated.

Danzig · #45 10-30-2010, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I have not encountered one single person that " hates " Zenyatta. Not a soul. What I have encountered are a lot of loose cannons that in their fear of seeing Zenyatta accurately assessed have labeled all those with an unbiased opinion of her to be " haters " and have resorted to as many diversionary tactics as they could possibly dream up. They obfuscate the truth by ignoring competition, surface, race restrictions, and mostly by introducing complete non-sequitors on a continual basis ( i.e. last year's HOY Award and most notably Rachel Alexandra ). Karl Rove would be proud.

Zenyatta is a VERY good horse. However, she will never be as good, based on her actual racetrack performances, as some want us to believe. Nothing wrong with that, as some want us to believe she is the greatest horse of all time, and nothing could be further from the truth. An impressive win in this BC Classic would prove a lot, and certainly elevate her lofty status, but by the same token, a mediocre performance should be viewed as exposing her weaknesses that heretofore have been either ignored or strongly denied.

What the hell is wrong with being an exceptional racehorse? Why is it so important to manufacture praise that isn't necessarily warranted to enjoy talent these days? And why are those that question the overzealousness suddenly " haters " when they are actually nothing more than realists?

i'm pretty sure this latest round of discussion began because it was said that zenyatta deserved HOY even if she lost. there is no way her campaign with a loss next saturday would warrant that award-or even being one of the finalists.

goingtothewhip · #46 10-30-2010, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I have not encountered one single person that " hates " Zenyatta. Not a soul. What I have encountered are a lot of loose cannons that in their fear of seeing Zenyatta accurately assessed have labeled all those with an unbiased opinion of her to be " haters " and have resorted to as many diversionary tactics as they could possibly dream up. They obfuscate the truth by ignoring competition, surface, race restrictions, and mostly by introducing complete non-sequitors on a continual basis ( i.e. last year's HOY Award and most notably Rachel Alexandra ). Karl Rove would be proud.

Diversionary tactics and a non-sequiturs!

Glenn Beck would be proud of you for exposing the conspiracy.

geeker2 · #47 10-30-2010, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jms62

And what happens if she doesn't run due to a last minute "issue"? I just have that feeling...

Shirreffs was on Down the Stretch this AM

Sounded like he and Zenyatta are going to BC

might be gas?

Indian Charlie · #48 10-30-2010, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geeker2

Shirreffs was on Down the Stretch this AM

Sounded like he and Zenyatta are going to BC

might be gas?

She's going to KY no matter what. They can easily ship her to CD, come up with a phantom problem, and then ship her to a farm to be bred next year.

Hopefully to Indian Charlie.

geeker2 · #49 10-30-2010, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

She's going to KY no matter what. They can easily ship her to CD, come up with a phantom problem, and then ship her to a farm to be bred next year.

Hopefully to Indian Charlie.

Good point - does BC pay for shipment? Because that would seem to make sense.

I say Colonel Mustard in the Library with the Candlestick

Indian Charlie · #50 10-30-2010, 12:47 PM

My guess her withdrawal will be due to the small showers forecast for Friday, and how they had to do something with tractors on the dirt that makes it unfavorable for closers on the next day.

Though, that might meet with some backlash.

Perhaps the ole stepping on a nail trick will be used?

ateamstupid · #51 10-30-2010, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomerS

But again lets not pretend its all one way. There are people here (mostly east coasters) who are illogical and biased in the other direction. Lets not be silly and say that any and all discussion has been logical on the one side and emotion riddled and illogical on the other. Have seen plenty of emotion on both sides.

This is nonsense. I haven't seen one person say Zenyatta sucks. Which would be the other, illogical extreme. Show me one of these 'east coasters' who said it. One.

Princess Doreen · #52 10-30-2010, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

This is nonsense. I haven't seen one person say Zenyatta sucks. Which would be the other, illogical extreme. Show me one of these 'east coasters' who said it. One.

I totally agree. I think all this hate/suck accusations come from her losing HOY in 2008 and 2009 and anyone who tried to debate the issue that both Curlin and Rachel deserved the award immediately got labeled a Zenyatta hater.

2Hot4TV · #53 10-30-2010, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scav

Well said

Brownie!

Slewbopper · #54 10-30-2010, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arletta

Ut oh....

I think she will get it though this year...after all, look what she has done for racing

BC ratings in '84......5.1
Last year...............0.6

Dahoss · #55 10-30-2010, 05:30 PM

One thing that comes across in these discussions is that some seem to be speaking a completely different language than others.

Like if some say Zenyatta doesn't deserve HOY if she doesn't win the Classic, it gets taken as that person thinks she sucks....wrong.

If you don't think she is an all time great, you are a hater...wrong.

I have yet to see one person say she sucks...ever. I've also never seen anyone not say she isn't a really good, maybe even great horse. Where the disagreement lies is in her place among the greats and the all time status she has been granted while beating up on mediocre (being nice) competition.

If there is emotion on the side of the realists (haters) it's because some awfully good racehorses have been pushed aside in an effort to crown a horse that has not proven it on the track. Sorry, there is more to a record.

GPK · #56 10-30-2010, 05:39 PM

She sucks...there, I said it.

ateamstupid · #57 10-30-2010, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomerS

There you go again. "sucks". Mr Straw Man

Straw man? This is your quote:

Quote:

But again lets not pretend its all one way. There are people here (mostly east coasters) who are illogical and biased in the other direction. Lets not be silly and say that any and all discussion has been logical on the one side and emotion riddled and illogical on the other. Have seen plenty of emotion on both sides.

If they're not saying she sucks, then what are the illogical and biased things they're saying about her? Give me some examples, because I can give you a ton of illogical, biased things said in her favor.

ateamstupid · #58 10-30-2010, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomerS

Strawman Cant make a blind man see.

You have your point of view and nothing going to change that. Nothing.

If you are too stupid to see posts here and on other forums I cant make you see them.

PLenty of posts that have gone overboard in the other direction.

But just like a tea partier going to love O Donnell no matter what or a liberal going to defend Pelosi no matter what you play the game of "who me".

Nonsense all around Strawman. As biased as those saying she is greatest ever

Thanks for confirming that, as usual, you're completely talking out of your ass and have nothing to back up what you say. The more impressionable ones here will be better served now.

ateamstupid · #59 10-30-2010, 07:15 PM

Still waiting for an example of illogical and biased statements against Zenyatta. Just one. You clearly don't know what straw man means. I'm asking you to prove your original point.

blackthroatedwind · #60 10-30-2010, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomerS

Let me see, can pick one out of many. But let Let me give you a hint Straw. Check out Saturday BC thread.

Say hi to Dwight, Straw

There are numerous others when you want to take your blinders off.

Understand one side is pure as snow and other pure evil.

Makes you a good Palinite. Daryl

You're not clever. You're simply not answering his questions.

I guess that means he's right and you're wrong. There's a shocker.