Ramon A. Dominguez

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I'll give you an analogy that you might find reasonably fair...


If I came here and said Nick Zito deserved the Trainer of the Year over Todd because he came really close in many big races, won his share, and didn't have NEARLY the kind of stock, or the numbers, that Todd has, people would say I was crazily defending a friend.....and they would be right. They would not say I didn't necessarily make some fair points....but that my argument in its entirity was unsound and I was only making it because Nick is my close friend.

They would be right.

For the internet record....this was analogy....I don't believe what I was suggesting. Todd and Jerry Hollendorfer were the only two deserving candidates.

I'm just a little confused Andy, are you implying that Ramon just didn't have the stock? God knows he had the numbers, and plenty of backing. I also thought this trainer category was completely skewed, Baffert and Shirreffs had no business being nominated, I would have put Hollendorfer and Mott for the record, both won major races, but yeah, how could you deny Pletcher with a Derby and 3 Breeders Cup races? I'm not trying to be difficult, just not sure what the analogy is, I guess I don't see this big advantage that Garrett apparently is supposed to have over Ramon, where and when, and from whom?

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Riding less horses and making as much money? Understandable. However, does that mean he should be recognized as the Eclipse award winning rider?

You should REALLY think about that before answering.

Not if they were just everyday races, but the races he happened to win? Yes, I guess I put a lot of stock in rising to the occasion.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

I'm just a little confused Andy, are you implying that Ramon just didn't have the stock? God knows he had the numbers, and plenty of backing. I also thought this trainer category was completely skewed, Baffert and Shirreffs had no business being nominated, I would have put Hollendorfer and Mott for the record, both won major races, but yeah, how could you deny Pletcher with a Derby and 3 Breeders Cup races? I'm not trying to be difficult, just not sure what the analogy is, I guess I don't see this big advantage that Garrett apparently is supposed to have over Ramon, where and when, and from whom?

I thought the analogy was pretty clear....but apparently it wasn't.

You are making a weak argument for someone because he is a friend. It doesn't go much beyond that.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

Not if they were just everyday races, but the races he happened to win? Yes, I guess I put a lot of stock in rising to the occasion.

Not me. I think everyday riding counts a great deal. It's easier to " rise to the occasion " especially with the benefit of not having put it out there race after race....and day after day.

[eajinabi]

Take Ramon out of NYRA circuit and have him follow the same journey, Johnny V, Gomez, Castellano, Desormaux, Leparoux does throughout the year and you will quickly see how great of an average jockey he is. I believe last year he was 1 or 2 for 22 mounts at gulfstream last year.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

Take Ramon out of NYRA circuit and have him follow the same journey, Johnny V, Gomez, Castellano, Desormaux, Leparoux does throughout the year and you will quickly see how great of an average jockey he is. I believe last year he was 1 or 2 for 22 mounts at gulfstream last year.

Yeah, he gets embarassed at Saratoga every year against those same jockeys. Leparoux and Desormeaux really schooled him at Belmont this fall too.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

Take Ramon out of NYRA circuit and have him follow the same journey, Johnny V, Gomez, Castellano, Desormaux, Leparoux does throughout the year and you will quickly see how great of an average jockey he is. I believe last year he was 1 or 2 for 22 mounts at gulfstream last year.

He gave Winslow Homer a tremendous ride to win the Holy Bull last year.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. If you are looking to knock Ramon you should argue what a great jockey he is. That would, perhaps, give some of us pause.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

Take Ramon out of NYRA circuit and have him follow the same journey, Johnny V, Gomez, Castellano, Desormaux, Leparoux does throughout the year and you will quickly see how great of an average jockey he is. I believe last year he was 1 or 2 for 22 mounts at gulfstream last year.

Wow...

[3kings]

Originally Posted by merasmag

i don't wanna be accused of posting too late on this thread for the children to not have time to reply so i will reiterate what i said 27 hours ago...to judge who is more deserving of the eclipse you just need to evaluate who moves their horselets(TM) up more
over gogo...that is ramon
over everyone...that is pval

I think you misunderstood my post in the other thread. It's not when you post, it is what and how you post that gives many people a headache.

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

Lets not even compare each riders big wins last year, don't embarass yourself. I'll give you Ramon rides many more winners, but also many more horses, like 700 a year more, yet barely beats him in earnings, you know why? One wins the big races, one not so much.

Obviosuly you have some love affair with Gomez. What exactly does "big wins" have to do with who is a better rider? One guy wins a ton of races, one guy doesn't. Dominguez rides in a much tougher colony in NY then what Gomez competes against in horrible So-Cal. Winning the "big races" is such a cop out in this discussion. It's like if a horse wins The Dubai Classic and gets a huge check, is that horse better than a horse with less earnings but more wins? Not necessarily.

Stick to talking about how pretty horse colors are. Leave the actual racing discussions to people who have a clue.

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Let me ask you a question ( and I personally like Garrett as well as you ), do you think a jockey should be rewarded for riding pretty much only for certain outfits, mostly high profile, and in big races, while intentionally not riding for many cheaper outfits and in smaller pursed races over one that rides every day, in many races a day, often very cheap races ( in purse and quality ), for anybody and everybody, while forming no allegiances to any big outfits....and beats the former rider for specific riding titles?

Let me add something else....Ramon Dominguez rode NO HORSE in the Cigar Mile because he knew the connections of Haynesfield and a Dutrow longshot both wanted him, he had ridden both in their prior races, and he didn't want to be unfair to either participant. Do you think, and be honest, that Garrett would have done the same thing? No, this doesn't play into an Eclipse award discussion, save that perhaps Haynesfield would have won the Cigar ( surely Ramon would have chosen him ), and Ramon would have won another Grade 1 and more money.

No. Garret wouldn't do anything like that. Go back to one of the last days in 2009 when he Gomez was a few dollars behind Leparoux in earnings. Leparoux was oversees and not riding. Gomez took a pick up mount on the last day at SA in some cheap claiming race in the last race. I believe Pedroza all of a sudden "got sick" and Gomez got the mount. It was some huge favorite who couldn't lose. Gomez wins...beats Leparoux by a few dollars. The hilarious part was Leparoux still won eclipse jock award.

Comapring the kind of person they are is not even close. Ramon is 1000 lengths ahead of Gomez in that race.

[gaut10]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Leparoux and Desormeaux really schooled him at Belmont this fall too.

while there is no doubt ramon is well deserving of the eclipse and all his accolades, your argument above is a bit skewed, considering he (ramon) had 225 mounts compared to 57 for leparoux and kent d missed most of the meet with injury (10 mounts).

saying he schooled them at belmont would be like saying they schooled ramon at keeneland this fall.

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by stonegossard

Obviosuly you have some love affair with Gomez. What exactly does "big wins" have to do with who is a better rider? One guy wins a ton of races, one guy doesn't. Dominguez rides in a much tougher colony in NY then what Gomez competes against in horrible So-Cal. Winning the "big races" is such a cop out in this discussion. It's like if a horse wins The Dubai Classic and gets a huge check, is that horse better than a horse with less earnings but more wins? Not necessarily.

Stick to talking about how pretty horse colors are. Leave the actual racing discussions to people who have a clue.

I'd expect this response from you, of course, I have a love affair, that explains it, you have dreams of Ramon windmill whipping you on your ass? The So. Cal jockey colony is vastly superior to the Aqueduct inner, and your analgogy
of the Dubai World Cup as some sort of implication that Gomez only won one big race is ridiculous, as far as me thinking winning major races throughout the year trumping riding multiple winners in cheap claiming races, well your right, I do, your entitled to your opinion, I am mine, sex has nothing to do with
mine.

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

I'd expect this response from you, of course, I have a love affair, that explains it, you have dreams of Ramon windmill whipping you on your ass? The So. Cal jockey colony is vastly superior to the Aqueduct inner, and your analgogy
of the Dubai World Cup as some sort of implication that Gomez only won one big race is ridiculous, as far as me thinking winning major races throughout the year trumping riding multiple winners in cheap claiming races, well your right, I do, your entitled to your opinion, I am mine, sex has nothing to do with
mine.

Did I say AQU inner? Nice cherry picking job. What about Belmont and Saratoga?

Your lame argument is getting destroyed by everyone on here. You like Gomez because he is your buddy. We get it. But to say he deserved eclipse jock award is way off base.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

I'd expect this response from you, of course, I have a love affair, that explains it, you have dreams of Ramon windmill whipping you on your ass? The So. Cal jockey colony is vastly superior to the Aqueduct inner, and your analgogy
of the Dubai World Cup as some sort of implication that Gomez only won one big race is ridiculous, as far as me thinking winning major races throughout the year trumping riding multiple winners in cheap claiming races, well your right, I do, your entitled to your opinion, I am mine, sex has nothing to do with
mine.

You keep going back to the inner track arguement as if Dominguez is just an inner track phenom. Prior to Velazquez winning Saratoga this year, Dominguez had won 9 straight riding titles at the NYRA tracks.

From April to November NYRA has the most competitive jockey colony in the entire country. And Dominguez dominates them all and has for years.

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

You keep going back to the inner track arguement as if Dominguez is just an inner track phenom. Prior to Velazquez winning Saratoga this year, Dominguez had won 9 straight riding titles at the NYRA tracks.

From April to November NYRA has the most competitive jockey colony in the entire country. And Dominguez dominates them all and has for years.

Is hilarious her bringing up AQU when Gomez rides against an easy colony out there and at some real horrendous meets (Hollywood winter meet is a disaster...as is Hollywood Summer...SA winter....). right now it's tough to argue which is worse AQU inner or SA.

[Travis Stone]

Why bust-out the Seinfeld DVD's when I can read this thread for some good laughs?

[LARHAGE]

I get that Hoss, I really do, my contention is so what? I don't see dominating meets when you are on live mounts every race and have significantly more mounts as everyone else some knd of extraordinary achievement, I just don't, I'd rather have had success in racings biggest races, I understand if you don't, it's like the song, we just disagree. I think Ramon is a very good rider, and I am happy for him, I'm just saying if you laid out what both riders did this year and gave me a choice to pick which year I would have rather had it would be Garretts year, and not really even close.

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by stonegossard

Is hilarious her bringing up AQU when Gomez rides against an easy colony out there and at some real horrendous meets (Hollywood winter meet is a disaster...as is Hollywood Summer...SA winter....). right now it's tough to argue which is worse AQU inner or SA.

Uh, Gomez doesn't even ride these meets, and trust me Santa Anita has better riders than those Aqueduct clowns

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

I get that Hoss, I really do, my contention is so what? I don't see dominating meets when you are on live mounts every race and have significantly more mounts as everyone else some knd of extraordinary achievement, I just don't, I'd rather have had success in racings biggest races, I understand if you don't, it's like the song, we just disagree. I think Ramon is a very good rider, and I am happy for him, I'm just saying if you laid out what both riders did this year and gave me a choice to pick which year I would have rather had it would be Garretts year, and not really even close.

Fair enough and as I mentioned, and I'll do it again, Gomez is a great rider. But I do think it is worth mentioning that Gomez isn't exactly riding hopeless longshots. He's riding live mounts every race too. That goes with the territory. Gomez is at the point in his career where he can be choosy and only ride when and who he wants.