KY denies Dutrow license; Injunction allowing runners

[Kasept]

Court petitioned and apparently allowing Amen Hallelujah & Court Vision to run..

PER DRF: Kentucky court injunction will allow Dutrow-trained Amen Hallelujah to stay in today's Vinery Madison at Keeneland. More to come.

[lemoncrush]

Originally Posted by VOL JACK

Amen Hal & CV were gonna be favored.

Im just saying that THE BID has an excellent point.....that they never would have denied him a license when he had Big Brown coming for the Derby.

That's completely irrelevant, as Big Brown ran 3 years ago. Now if Boys at Toscanova was still in training, and pointing to the Derby, then it might have been a little more interesting to see if they were as quick to deny him a license.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by phystech

If the Racing Commission has the ability to pull the records on past violations, then why don't they simply pull the records and not require applicants to supply the information?

That part seems like more of a trap to me than anything......

Does the commission invite you to apply? Do you want a racing license to cost $1000 a year instead of $100? You are applying, they ask you for your information. It really isn't that complicated.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by lemoncrush

That's completely irrelevant, as Big Brown ran 3 years ago. Now if Boys at Toscanova was still in training, and pointing to the Derby, then it might have been a little more interesting to see if they were as quick to deny him a license.

Perhaps you haven't noticed but the KHRA under Lisa Underwood has been very proactive. (not that I agree with many of their stances) I doubt that him training a quasi-Derby horse would matter. As a matter of fact that might have encouraged them to make this move.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Perhaps you haven't noticed but the KHRA under Lisa Underwood has been very proactive. (not that I agree with many of their stances) I doubt that him training a quasi-Derby horse would matter. As a matter of fact that might have encouraged them to make this move.

If they want to give this teeth they should not allow him to transfer his horses. Any horse under his care as of the date of the suspension should not be allowed to race in Kentucky for the duration of the ban. Trainers not wanting to lose owners is lot more incentive than a suspension.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by jms62

If they want to give this teeth they should not allow him to transfer his horses. Any horse under his care as of the date of the suspension should not be allowed to race in Kentucky for the duration of the ban. Trainers not wanting to lose owners is lot more incentive than a suspension.

He isn't banned. He just isn't licensed. There is a big difference. The KHRA has no authority on what people do with their horses outside the state of KY.

The KHRA wouldn't grant licenses to Pat Valenzuela, Tracy Hebert and Francisco Torres for years. All of them were licensed in other states during the time KY wouldn't license them.

[freddymo]

There is a question which will ultimately be asked of KHRA that they will never be able to answer well. Why was Dutrow licensed in 2010? What are they going to say? We only license trainers with up to 57 violations not 60? And once they admit that the reason is new violations then the cat is out of the bag on procedure and precedent.. How much money are they going to waste defending their position when they have virtually no chance of suceeding..

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

There is a question which will ultimately be asked of KHRA that they will never be able to answer well. Why was Dutrow licensed in 2010? What are they going to say? We only license trainers with up to 57 violations not 60? And once they admit that the reason is new violations then the cat is out of the bag on procedure and precedent.. How much money are they going to waste defending their position when they have virtually no chance of suceeding..

Are you kidding? Dutrow's inability to fill out an application properly despite being given fair warning that he was having a hearing makes for a tough argument.

As far as I have ever heard in these cases the states are undefeated. It is their license, they make the rules and they can interpret them as they want. The only people wasting money will be Dutrow's lawyers.

[phystech]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Does the commission invite you to apply? Do you want a racing license to cost $1000 a year instead of $100? You are applying, they ask you for your information. It really isn't that complicated.

There would be no difference in cost. If I write I have 27 violations, they are going to pull the data to see if I have 30. So, if they are going to pull the data anyway, just pull the data to start with and not set the trap.

But that would be too efficient and racing comms don't work that way.....

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The difference is that perhaps more of his transgressions came to light and if you lie about them you get denied a license? Pretty simple. And there is no excuse for not having an accurate list of violations. If you go into virtually any licensing office or contact the RCI you can get a printout of all your violations to attach to the license application. To not have the application filled out properly especially when he knows the heat is on is indefensible.

George O'Leary laughed.

[Duvalier]

Dutrow will always have Maryland. When they licensed Ziadie they never bothered to check into his past violations.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Are you kidding? Dutrow's inability to fill out an application properly despite being given fair warning that he was having a hearing makes for a tough argument.

As far as I have ever heard in these cases the states are undefeated. It is their license, they make the rules and they can interpret them as they want. The only people wasting money will be Dutrow's lawyers.

Apparently today's results notwithstanding..lol

Chuck Dutrow maybe the biggest cheat ever and frankly I could careless if he trains ever again, but at least admit its a witch hunt.. The guy had 50 mil positives in 2010, now lo and behold a few more broke the camels back? Have a heart its a capricious attack.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Apparently today's results notwithstanding..lol

Chuck Dutrow maybe the biggest cheat ever and frankly I could careless if he trains ever again, but at least admit its a witch hunt.. The guy had 50 mil positives in 2010, now lo and behold a few more broke the camels back? Have a heart its a capricious attack.

Who the hell is Chuck Dutrow

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by jms62

Who the hell is Chuck Dutrow

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0244853/
The production designer of Indecent Behavior III.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by phystech

There would be no difference in cost. If I write I have 27 violations, they are going to pull the data to see if I have 30. So, if they are going to pull the data anyway, just pull the data to start with and not set the trap.

But that would be too efficient and racing comms don't work that way.....

So you would just write your name and sign the thing and the commission would have to research you? That doesn't seem to make any sense. Like I said you are applying for the license, you should know your information.

It isnt a trap if you fill the document out properly.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Apparently today's results notwithstanding..lol

Chuck Dutrow maybe the biggest cheat ever and frankly I could careless if he trains ever again, but at least admit its a witch hunt.. The guy had 50 mil positives in 2010, now lo and behold a few more broke the camels back? Have a heart its a capricious attack.

Witch hunts are conducted on people who aren't witches. Dutrow is a witch. He may not be the queen witch but a witch nonetheless. And even witches can conduct their business in a proper manner. Because he and others have skated for years doesn't mean it is right and doesn't mean it should continue.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Witch hunts are conducted on people who aren't witches. Dutrow is a witch. He may not be the queen witch but a witch nonetheless. And even witches can conduct their business in a proper manner. Because he and others have skated for years doesn't mean it is right and doesn't mean it should continue.

So basically you are suggesting that indeed Dutrow has not changed his spots and hence what has changed is the state and their licensing practices..If so then such change should be on record and be consisent for all.. Are you attempting to suggest that only Dutrow has had a new positive(or multiples) and is the ONLY person that has issues? Or are you says the state can simply use the best interest in racing clause without due process?

[Alan07]

Court Vision will be permitted to run tomorrow under the name of a new trainer, Justin Sallusto.
http://www.drf.com/news/keeneland-co...-trainers-name

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

So basically you are suggesting that indeed Dutrow has not changed his spots and hence what has changed is the state and their licensing practices..If so then such change should be on record and be consisent for all.. Are you attempting to suggest that only Dutrow has had a new positive(or multiples) and is the ONLY person that has issues? Or are you says the state can simply use the best interest in racing clause without due process?

There is no due process. There is no crime or charges. He is simply denied a license to train in the state. It is a professional license. Obviously they feel he no longer qualifies for a license in KY. He is not suspended or banned. He simply is not licensed. It isn't as though he hasn't given them ample evidence to use against him.

Do you think that Dutrow is the ONLY one who has been refused a license in KY? Did you miss the post about Hebert and Torres?

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Alan07

Court Vision will be permitted to run tomorrow under the name of a new trainer, Justin Sallusto.
http://www.drf.com/news/keeneland-co...-trainers-name

Allowing this defeats the whole purpose of denying him a license.