Garden City, Gazelle, & Man O' War

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Showing up is a very good horse. But it is a huge step up when facing older horses (especially older horses of this caliber). Even though the "improvement factor" is much better for 3 years than older horses the jump up in class is, often times, too difficult for 3 year olds. A good example is Lady Of Venice. She looked good at Churchill and she looked good at Saratoga only losing by a shrinking length. If she ran that same race against horses or her own age, she wins by 5+ lengths.

I dont think this board is pro-cacique and anti-showing up. I think the board is using experience and logic when assessing the two horses. But like Gander said, we will see in 48 hours.

i can assure you that go deputy, relaxed gesture and showing up are all as good as cacique. cacique has no more grade 1 wins than any of the others. the horse with the upside is showing up but i think showing up and cacique will be overbet. go deputy is very dangerous here. i really think go deputy is better than his stablemate english channel right now. i think showing up would have been an easy winner but ramazutti will ensure us of a nice pace.

i have to admit i love turf racing much more than the dirt racing. this is an excellent race.

Originally Posted by Revolution

i can assure you that go deputy, relaxed gesture and showing up are all as good as cacique. cacique has no more grade 1 wins than any of the others. the horse with the upside is showing up but i think showing up and cacique will be overbet. go deputy is very dangerous here. i really think go deputy is better than his stablemate english channel right now. i think showing up would have been an easy winner but ramazutti will ensure us of a nice pace.

i have to admit i love turf racing much more than the dirt racing. this is an excellent race.

I don't think Ramazutti setting a solid pace will hurt Showing Up. From what I have seen, he doesn't need the lead. The only time he wired a field was at Arlington.

Anybody know if it is going to rain? A soft turf moves Relaxed Gesture way up.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

I have had Planets Aligned his last two races. His race on the 29th was wonderful. I think he has a little better competition in this one. But the horse is in great form. I will not be betting this race because it is hard to win 3 in a row. But I love this horse.

Actually, Planets Aligned lost eight days ago to Big Prairie and is wheeling back on short rest. He's one of the ones I would probably toss, although like I said, you can make a case for any horse in that race.

[pba1817]

Showing Up is another solid 3yo of this season. Everyone seems to agreet aht the 3yo's are better than the older horses this year, so why should this situation be any different??

I am excited to see him take on older horses in this race. I do think he wins with Cacique running a solid second. I also like Relaxed Gesture and Cosmonaut to hit the board.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Revolution

i have seen all of these horses and english channel and cacique are not as talented as showing up or after market. that is just my opinion. i like horses that are improving and both showing up and after market are making major improvements each race. they are both running bigger numbers each race. the older horses have not improved at all this year.

both 3yr olds are the two best american turf horses in my opinion, i am just not sure which one is better. i really like after market though and i loved showing ups win at arlington off those fast fractions. the older horses were very entertaining beating each other in their rivalry but none ever proved to be anything special. i do not think any of the older horses could ever compete with the europeans.

LMFAO....I think I just peed my pants reading that stuff.....whoa....Oh my...thanks for the laugh Revolution....I needed that.

Cacique should walk over this field and RG becomes a threat with the jock switch to Nak.

[1st_Saturday_in_May]

1. Cacique
2. Cosmonaut
3. Relaxed Gesutre
4. Showing Up

First 4 separated by 1 3/4 lengths

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by deltaforce97

I don't think Ramazutti setting a solid pace will hurt Showing Up. From what I have seen, he doesn't need the lead. The only time he wired a field was at Arlington.

Anybody know if it is going to rain? A soft turf moves Relaxed Gesture way up.

No rain in the forecast.. Almost definite to be fast and firm.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Revolution

i can assure you that go deputy, relaxed gesture and showing up are all as good as cacique. cacique has no more grade 1 wins than any of the others. the horse with the upside is showing up but i think showing up and cacique will be overbet. go deputy is very dangerous here. i really think go deputy is better than his stablemate english channel right now. i think showing up would have been an easy winner but ramazutti will ensure us of a nice pace.

i have to admit i love turf racing much more than the dirt racing. this is an excellent race.

Holy sh*t I can't stop laughing.....can we keep this guy around??? I love people with a sense of humor that can keep me in stitches....

[Gander]

If Cacique does lose this race, he surely will have an excuse. Every time he loses its because of something or another. Its never because he wasnt the best horse.

Kev, while I am not really for or against Go Deputy being "better" than English Channel, you can certainly make a case that the two are at least in the same league as far as right now goes. Go Deputy beat Relaxed Gesture as decisively as ENglish Channel beat him last time they ran. Go Deputy looked real good in the Sword Dancer and would have been very tough for any horse to handle that day. I would say the jury is still very much out although English Channel is more accomplished.

[Sightseek]

The undercard is pretty nice too!

http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbR...2006&STYLE=EQB

Great Point returns (Race 3 faces Luxembourg, Regent Spirit & Sir Halory), Trueheart, who isn't very good but is a sibling to A.P. Valentine is an AE in the 5th, Rebuttal is in the 1st.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Gander

If Cacique does lose this race, he surely will have an excuse. Every time he loses its because of something or another. Its never because he wasnt the best horse.

Kev, while I am not really for or against Go Deputy being "better" than English Channel, you can certainly make a case that the two are at least in the same league as far as right now goes. Go Deputy beat Relaxed Gesture as decisively as ENglish Channel beat him last time they ran. Go Deputy looked real good in the Sword Dancer and would have been very tough for any horse to handle that day. I would say the jury is still very much out although English Channel is more accomplished.

Tim....I could have beat RG by 10 lengths after the headlock Kent D. put him in.

give me a winner in the 2nd today so I can find a good early double.

Originally Posted by Gander

If Cacique does lose this race, he surely will have an excuse. Every time he loses its because of something or another. Its never because he wasnt the best horse.

Kev, while I am not really for or against Go Deputy being "better" than English Channel, you can certainly make a case that the two are at least in the same league as far as right now goes. Go Deputy beat Relaxed Gesture as decisively as ENglish Channel beat him last time they ran. Go Deputy looked real good in the Sword Dancer and would have been very tough for any horse to handle that day. I would say the jury is still very much out although English Channel is more accomplished.

Tim I don't recall any excuse for him losing any race this year other than the rough trip he got at CD. No excuxse at either Mth or AP and I think this excuse thing is something in your own mind. WHo offered excuses in any race but one? And that race at CD did have a legitimate excuse.

[GPK]

I like Go Deputy alot....hes a very good horse....6-1 on him that day was a GIFT.

[Gander]

Kev- I would try Chantal's horse 'Owns the Place' in the back end of the late double. This horse has the best speed and because of the jockey will get away at an overlay.

Didnt Cacique also have a huge excuse (bad ride, way wide?) in his first race this year out in California when he lost to Milk it Mick? Or am I getting him mixed up with somebody else? Pardon me if I am, I dont have Cacique's PPs in front of me.

And didnt everybody say teh only reason he lost the Million was Tin Man and his crawling pace? Isnt that an excuse?

Originally Posted by Gander

Kev- I would try Chantal's horse 'Owns the Place' in the back end of the late double. This horse has the best speed and because of the jockey will get away at an overlay.

Didnt Cacique also have a huge excuse (bad ride, way wide?) in his first race this year out in California when he lost to Milk it Mick? Or am I getting him mixed up with somebody else? Pardon me if I am, I dont have Cacique's PPs in front of me.

And didnt everybody say teh only reason he lost the Million was Tin Man and his crawling pace? Isnt that an excuse?

Tim, thats not an excuse, thats reality.
And I think you often confuse legitimate facts with excuses.
I don't think anyone who said that was saying that it was an excuse. Its just the way it is. I commended the Tin Man and his connections and the race he ran. But you have to admit, when 1:15 went up on the board the race was over, especially since the fillies went in 1:11:3 earlier.
I mean, should we just ignore horses who are stuck behind crawling paces or locked in traffic most of a trip.
I attribute his last loss to a combination of "pilot error" and the fact that he was chasing a damn game and nice horse down the lane.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Gander

Kev- I would try Chantal's horse 'Owns the Place' in the back end of the late double. This horse has the best speed and because of the jockey will get away at an overlay.

Didnt Cacique also have a huge excuse (bad ride, way wide?) in his first race this year out in California when he lost to Milk it Mick? Or am I getting him mixed up with somebody else? Pardon me if I am, I dont have Cacique's PPs in front of me.

And didnt everybody say teh only reason he lost the Million was Tin Man and his crawling pace? Isnt that an excuse?

Yes he was pretty wide on the turn in that race in CA, but since then I really like the way they have been more aggresive with him and riding closer on the lead. His victory on the Belmont Stakes undercard was a very clever ride in my opinion.

Did anyone watch the head on of the Arlington Million break? English Channel got knocked hard by Cacique...that has to be the worst positioning of a gate I've seen.

[Gander]

His victory on the Belmont Stakes undercard was a very clever ride in my opinion.

He wired the field going slow fractions. Yes it was very clever. Relaxed Gesture was far and away the best horse that day, closing tons of ground with Grey Swallow to lose by a head bob, besting English Channel who sat a cozy trip just off Cacique.

Originally Posted by Gander

His victory on the Belmont Stakes undercard was a very clever ride in my opinion.

He wired the field going slow fractions. Yes it was very clever. Relaxed Gesture was far and away the best horse that day, closing tons of ground with Grey Swallow to lose by a head bob, besting English Channel who sat a cozy trip just off Cacique.

The turf was also off and favored deep closers all day long. Sorry guys, that was a win against the bias for which he gets more credit in my opinion.
The other turf races I recall were Contessa's maiden by Point Given coming from last place, as did Gorella running down a horse on a long losse lead(Pommes Frites) who had set slow fractions.

[Cannon Shell]

Older American Turf horses = mediocre bunch

Showing Up may be as good as the top bunch and gets weight plus most likely getting better while the others aren't

I like him because he is one of a handful of horses in recent memory that was absolutely rushed to get into the derby but managed not only to survive but improve.

I also love when Tagg wins a big race because I know it pisses off the writers cause they hate him.

[Cajungator26]

It's hard to dismiss Cacique, but I believe that Relaxed Gesture is a serious threat. I will sit and watch this one... can't wait to see how Showing Up does.