Empire Way - Page 3

blackthroatedwind · #41 11-14-2011, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

I wish I could. I'm 52. Started in the business at 17. Actually that's 35 years. Yeesh and I thought I couldn't feel any worse.

Why would saying I trust the numbers more after 30 years than my eye prompt you to say "Can't help yourself"?

Wow. I just posted about a horse I called Sunday.

Didn't realize there was such a smoldering caldron.

I think your innocence and naivety are what I admire the most.

Maybe that's because I have neither.

RolloTomasi · #42 11-14-2011, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot

Tell us, Rollo, what do you think of Empire Way's Beyer?

Read the thread. I didn't drop in here simply sporting a picture menu.

Riot · #43 11-14-2011, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Read the thread. I didn't drop in here simply sporting a picture menu.

I think the Beyer is suitable. Of course, everyone's opinion is welcomed here.

#44 11-14-2011, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I think your innocence and naivety are what I admire the most.

Maybe that's because I have neither.

However, you can have respect if you choose to use it.

I expect everyone would admire that.

blackthroatedwind · #45 11-14-2011, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

However, you can have respect if you choose to use it.

I expect everyone would admire that.

I don't want to flaunt any admirable traits.

RolloTomasi · #46 11-14-2011, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot

I think the Beyer is suitable.

Vic Stauffer is the only one who tried to bury the validity of the Beyer number. And Vic Stauffer is an honorable man.

Quote:

Of course, everyone's opinion is welcomed here.

Whether it is solicited or not is another matter.

#47 11-14-2011, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Vic Stauffer is the only one who tried to bury the validity of the Beyer number. And Vic Stauffer is an honorable man.

Whether it is solicited or not is another matter.

What the heck are you talking about? I said TRUST THE NUMBERS. How on earth is that trying to bury the validity of the Beyer number?

Here's a copy of what I posted....................................65 Beyer

Wow. That's a shock. Visually it looked alot better than that. BTW kids don't be fooled by how the rider either drives or doesn't. I've learned over the years to TRUST THE NUMBER. I've seen a thousand races where the jock was motionless but the horse especially a young one was doing his best. The horses don't have the reasoning in their minds to gear it down. They just run. Rosario asked him to roll pretty good going to the quarter pole. From there in regardless of what he did I expect Empire Way was pretty much doing close to his best. The numbers tend to be the closest things to fact. Adjusting off those with something tough to quantify usually is not nearly as reliable. TRUST THE NUMBERS. Will be very interesting to see what Thoro-graph and Ragozin give him.

blackthroatedwind · #48 11-14-2011, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

What the heck are you talking about? I said TRUST THE NUMBERS. How on earth is that trying to bury the validity of the Beyer number?

Here's a copy of what I posted....................................65 Beyer

Wow. That's a shock. Visually it looked alot better than that. BTW kids don't be fooled by how the rider either drives or doesn't. I've learned over the years to TRUST THE NUMBER. I've seen a thousand races where the jock was motionless but the horse especially a young one was doing his best. The horses don't have the reasoning in their minds to gear it down. They just run. Rosario asked him to roll pretty good going to the quarter pole. From there in regardless of what he did I expect Empire Way was pretty much doing close to his best. The numbers tend to be the closest things to fact. Adjusting off those with something tough to quantify usually is not nearly as reliable. TRUST THE NUMBERS. Will be very interesting to see what Thoro-graph and Ragozin give him.

Who are these kids you speak of?

Rudeboyelvis · #49 11-14-2011, 09:03 PM

I got that you were ok with the BSF, just all the rest of your post was

As Rolli pointed out, it was a horrendous race, with four 2yo's that either can't sprint or don't take to cushion and Empire Way, who appears as though he might like a bit more distance, though not nearly as conclusively, as he was similarly plagued by distance / surface - just not a badly.

The real question is...considering they walked the first quarter and crawled the rest of the way...What sort of conclusions could anyone really take away from from that race?

#50 11-14-2011, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Who are these kids you speak of?

That's just a figure of speech. It wasn't meant to imply anything. Sometimes a person will come into a room and just say "hey kids what's up". I meant no disrespect to anyone.

RolloTomasi · #51 11-14-2011, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

What the heck are you talking about? I said TRUST THE NUMBERS.

Yep. And you are an honorable man.

Quote:

How on earth is that trying to bury the validity of the Beyer number?

Here's a copy of what I posted....................................65 Beyer

Wow. That's a shock. Visually it looked alot better than that. BTW kids don't be fooled by how the rider either drives or doesn't. I've learned over the years to TRUST THE NUMBER. I've seen a thousand races where the jock was motionless but the horse especially a young one was doing his best. The horses don't have the reasoning in their minds to gear it down. They just run. Rosario asked him to roll pretty good going to the quarter pole. From there in regardless of what he did I expect Empire Way was pretty much doing close to his best. The numbers tend to be the closest things to fact. Adjusting off those with something tough to quantify usually is not nearly as reliable. TRUST THE NUMBERS. Will be very interesting to see what Thoro-graph and Ragozin give him.

Nicely done. At first, it was Greek to me. But then I looked closer and saw that mischief was afoot. This speech is littered with sarcasm and rhetoric. You don't fool me any longer. You're just paying lip service to the speed figure dudes here. Clearly you were trying to incite a Riot.

Or a Pedigree Ann.

blackthroatedwind · #52 11-14-2011, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

That's just a figure of speech. It wasn't meant to imply anything. Sometimes a person will come into a room and just say "hey kids what's up". I meant no disrespect to anyone.

You do realize I'm joking....right?

#53 11-14-2011, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

You do realize I'm joking....right?

No I didn't. Past posts would indicate otherwise. No worries though. All good. Have a great night.

Rooting for Vikings for fellow announcer Paul Allen. Looks pretty bad.

Riot · #54 11-14-2011, 09:42 PM

Yup. Pretty funny thread.

Calzone Lord · #55 11-17-2011, 08:31 AM

If Empire Way was not a full to Royal Delta absolutely no one would be talking about this horse.

Speaking of which -- if anyone wants to see what a great debut looks like... here's Royal Delta winning her debut by about 15 lengths in hand throughout for Bill Mott (who absolutely sucks as a debut trainer, by the way)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRj2_cQSPsg

Calzone Lord · #56 11-17-2011, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

That's what they said about Dialed In last year around this time. Of course, he was a force up until the actual Classics.

Dialed In as a 2yo would have destroyed Empire Way at 6.5 furlongs.

10 pnt move up · #57 11-17-2011, 10:01 AM

I am sure the figure is mechanically correct but not sure its representative of the horses ability, I know that Sadler thought highly of the runner up, and maybe they all just suck but given these guys have had some decent horses you would imagine they would not think so highly of horses barely capable of winning a 4 year old and up mdn claimer 10k at turf paradise.

Calzone Lord · #58 11-17-2011, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I am sure the figure is mechanically correct but not sure its representative of the horses ability,

One race prior: A $32,000 claiming race for older males at the exact same distance went 32 full points faster

One race after: A filly shipping in from Los Al wins a weak $8,000 claiming sprint for females in upset fashion with a time that equals just 3 points lower than Empire Way.

There are no smoke and mirrors with the number -- if you think it should have been a 76 instead of a 65... suddenly that 32K claiming winner also gets bumped up 11 and gets a figure as fast as the Breeders Cup Sprint winner.

Mechanically correct? -- unquestionably. The whole day seems very cut and dry.

Any first-time starter can improve with a race. Sadler's Sidney's Candy improved a gigantic amount from start one to two.

Obviously, the super slow winner did close into a slow pace and is a lock to prefer more ground. If his sister wasn't Royal Delta -- no one would care -- and as far as debuts go ... Royal Delta's was a pole better.

Indian Charlie · #59 11-17-2011, 01:56 PM

On to the HP Futurity for Empire Way.

http://www.drf.com/news/hollywood-pa...ter-maiden-win

RolloTomasi · #60 11-17-2011, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Dialed In as a 2yo would have destroyed Empire Way at 6.5 furlongs.

No argument from me, I was only speculating on the hype factor for Empire Way this winter rather than comparing them outright. Both won 6.5f maiden races in their respective debuts impressively (at least visually). Both have very good pedigrees top and bottom.

Dialed In followed through somewhat, as he ended up favorite for the Kentucky Derby.