Pope Pours Gas on the Fire

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

What's ironic about this whole thing is that these militant Muslims are making the Pope look like he was right. The Pope was saying that it's a violent religion and now these militants are calling for the killing of the Pope and the killing of Christians, etc.

You would think that they would do the opposite. If they want to show that the Pope's remarks were incorrect, they should all be calling for restraint. They should be saying that his comments were incorrect and ignorant. By calling for violence, they are making his comments look correct.

Nailed Rupert.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

No, I believe you are wrong. Nearly all Muslims practice and are here practicing restraint. However, the fraction of a percent of Muslms that does not is what makes news or, better said, is considered newsworthy by those who have newspapers and airtime advertising to sell.

Nearly all Muslim clerics and community leaders have indeed accused the Pope of displaying ignorance or bigotry. Arguably true.

Yet today, the Muslim Council of Great Britain welcomed and accepted the Pope's apology for his remarks.

You won't see this reported on Fox News nor will it see much airtime on CNN or the U.S. broadcast networks. That's just the way it is. BBC certainly had more balance to the story than the U.S. networks as I watched the news today.

When you say of Islam, "That is the only religion that you are not allowed to say anything bad about. If you say anything bad about their religion they want to kill you," that is lamentable and very wrong.

One observation I've made is that you rarely just see one comma. They usually come in pairs. And you rarely see intolerance without ignorance.

I say this not of you but of all of us.

I'm not saying that most Muslims in the US are calling for violence. I'm not even saying that most Muslims overseas are. But you have to admit that there are a ton of Muslims in the streets in the Middle East calling for blood.

When Salman Rushdie wrote that satirical book about Islam, there was a bounty put on his head. I remember than even Cat Stevens said at the the time that the Koran clearly states that anyone who defames the prophet must die. There was a guy just recently in Afghanistan who was sentenced to death for converting to Christianity. I don't think you are free to criticize Islam in most countries in the Middle East.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Yes I heard the great outcry from the Imams saying, yeah, whatever. Dont take to the streets, it would just be foolish and make us look like the West wants us to look... Intolerant, violent, zealots.

Sadly, I did not see any statements from Islamic leaders that this was a somewhat ignorant regretful statement, BUT, dont be as stupid as this Western religious leader who made a statement he really should apologize for. Did you see any mention of this STS? Hold back, we are better than that?
I did not.

pg,
yes, i saw what you are asking about. Check the London Daily Mirror. Check The Independent. Check Al Jezeera.

And tell me, have YOU seen:
- Any Western political leaders call the Pope "stupid" as you suggest Muslim leaders should ... I have not. And will not, He's not a stupid man.
- The Pope actually apologize for his comments, aside from for the world's reaction to them? ... I have not. And likely will not, Again, the Pope is not a stupid man.

And please, give me your personal and sincere answer to this question:

Do you think it was just a simple mistake that the Pope's choice of words included "inhuman and evil" - when he quoted Manuel II Palaeologus - to characterise Islam?

Most Muslims, as well as many non-Islams do not care for Benedict's views on tolerance at least compared to JP II. Benedict's comments are seen by many to be consistent with his prior words and actions with regard to Islam.

Benedict is a stark contrast to the years of JPII who constantly spoke of bringing closer together Christians, Jews and Muslims. As I am sure you know, Benedict's first mass made no reference to a fraternal relationship with Islam.

I think it's interesting that people think some rock throwing Palestinians is the story here. The story here is the religous leader of the world chose to use the words "inhuman" and "evil" to characterize another religion. And you and I both should know it doesn't matter if he was quoting someone else.

On the lighter side of this, I DEMAND to know where the hell Rob Schneider is on all of this. A couple months back, he proclaimed he would never work with Mel Gibson. Seems he's giving a pass to the Pope on this.

[Downthestretch55]

An interesting article.
Voice of America...
http://www.voanews.com/english/CN-PO...Y-19sept06.cfm

The "sane voice" comes from Malaysia.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Nailed Rupert.

Not nailed.
There's no need to validate ignorance.
http://www.startribune.com/562/story/685595.html

[timmgirvan]

So the Muslims are going to call a Jihad because of their suspicions?

[Danzig]

anyone have any comments regarding rosie o'donnells 'words of wisdom' from the view the other day? i don't watch the show, but i saw the cut of her comments on the news later that day.....i think her comments were completely incorrect and incredibly ignorant--and i can't believe the audience response....well, yeah, i can. they are 'view' fans after all.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

anyone have any comments regarding rosie o'donnells 'words of wisdom' from the view the other day? i don't watch the show, but i saw the cut of her comments on the news later that day.....i think her comments were completely incorrect and incredibly ignorant--and i can't believe the audience response....well, yeah, i can. they are 'view' fans after all.

Agree with you,but really those comments don't deserve a response!

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

So the Muslims are going to call a Jihad because of their suspicions?

I don't know if they are calling for Jihad because they are suspicious.
I'm not a Muslim.
My best guess is that they feel "targeted".
I'll have to find an answer to your question on a site that offers and English translation from Arabic.
Timm, if you find the answer, share it. Thanks.

Originally Posted by SentToStud

pg,
yes, i saw what you are asking about. Check the London Daily Mirror. Check The Independent. Check Al Jezeera.

And tell me, have YOU seen:
- Any Western political leaders call the Pope "stupid" as you suggest Muslim leaders should ... I have not. And will not, He's not a stupid man.
- The Pope actually apologize for his comments, aside from for the world's reaction to them? ... I have not. And likely will not, Again, the Pope is not a stupid man.

And please, give me your personal and sincere answer to this question:

Do you think it was just a simple mistake that the Pope's choice of words included "inhuman and evil" - when he quoted Manuel II Palaeologus - to characterise Islam?

Most Muslims, as well as many non-Islams do not care for Benedict's views on tolerance at least compared to JP II. Benedict's comments are seen by many to be consistent with his prior words and actions with regard to Islam.

Benedict is a stark contrast to the years of JPII who constantly spoke of bringing closer together Christians, Jews and Muslims. As I am sure you know, Benedict's first mass made no reference to a fraternal relationship with Islam.

I think it's interesting that people think some rock throwing Palestinians is the story here. The story here is the religous leader of the world chose to use the words "inhuman" and "evil" to characterize another religion. And you and I both should know it doesn't matter if he was quoting someone else.

On the lighter side of this, I DEMAND to know where the hell Rob Schneider is on all of this. A couple months back, he proclaimed he would never work with Mel Gibson. Seems he's giving a pass to the Pope on this.

Al Jeeszera? Thats worse than watching FOX. And the London Daily Mirror. A wild guess would tell me since they just caught a number of Muslims planning to blow up planes coming out of London that the leaders there felt slightly "compelled" to say something. But the rest of the Arab/Muslim world?

The facts remain. There is a world wide religion that has one of the largest elements of fundamentalists. Islam. And to go along with these fundamentalisms, which does not necessarily have to be a bad word, comes a very bad offshoot... Total intolerance of others belief systems. And to square that bad combination of fundamentalism and intolerance, comes the belief in violence towards others that do not share this belief system. There is not another worldwide religion, AT THIS TIME, that shows such a largescale widespread ingrained belief system that encompasses these 3 most volatile attributes coming together at one time. Houston we have an obvious malfunction. It is very clear to me.

This is not to say we do not find radical Christian and Hindu groups, we do. But the % of people that practice a nonviolent, tolerant, nonfundamentalist view of these religions is much larger. Although if the Pope does not have someone review his speeches before he spouts out hatred... He lost a heck of a lot of standing, apology or not... Speaking of that, the last apology that came from another worldwide religious leader that is spreading the word of Islam in Iran and places beyond was when...? And has he lost standing?
And the last time he was criticized so heavily by other Islamic nations that they forced him into an apology happened when?

[Nostradamus]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Al Jeeszera? Thats worse than watching FOX. And the London Daily Mirror. A wild guess would tell me since they just caught a number of Muslims planning to blow up planes coming out of London that the leaders there felt slightly "compelled" to say something. But the rest of the Arab/Muslim world?

The facts remain. There is a world wide religion that has one of the largest elements of fundamentalists. Islam. And to go along with these fundamentalisms, which does not necessarily have to be a bad word, comes a very bad offshoot... Total intolerance of others belief systems. And to square that bad combination of fundamentalism and intolerance, comes the belief in violence towards others that do not share this belief system. There is not another worldwide religion, AT THIS TIME, that shows such a largescale widespread ingrained belief system that encompasses these 3 most volatile attributes coming together at one time. Houston we have an obvious malfunction. It is very clear to me.

This is not to say we do not find radical Christian and Hindu groups, we do. But the % of people that practice a nonviolent, tolerant, nonfundamentalist view of these religions is much larger. Although if the Pope does not have someone review his speeches before he spouts out hatred... He lost a heck of a lot of standing, apology or not... Speaking of that, the last apology that came from another worldwide religious leader that is spreading the word of Islam in Iran and places beyond was when...? And has he lost standing?
And the last time he was criticized so heavily by other Islamic nations that they forced him into an apology happened when?

I notice you mention radical Christian and Hindu groups and you have issues with Islam. Let me guess, you are Jewish. Well, they are just as crazy. All of them of full of lunatics. Religions is for irrational people. Doesn't matter which one. They are no different than the wacko scientologists.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

I don't know if they are calling for Jihad because they are suspicious.
I'm not a Muslim.
My best guess is that they feel "targeted".
I'll have to find an answer to your question on a site that offers and English translation from Arabic.
Timm, if you find the answer, share it. Thanks.

DTS: I was pretty sure you weren't a Muslim. Actually, as a white American, I feel kinda targeted too! We disagree on things, but I'm not calling for your head on a platter! These people need to level off and IF they can find a effective leader...then maybe they won't feel targeted because they'll have a voice!

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Al Jeeszera? Thats worse than watching FOX. And the London Daily Mirror. A wild guess would tell me since they just caught a number of Muslims planning to blow up planes coming out of London that the leaders there felt slightly "compelled" to say something. But the rest of the Arab/Muslim world?

The facts remain. There is a world wide religion that has one of the largest elements of fundamentalists. Islam. And to go along with these fundamentalisms, which does not necessarily have to be a bad word, comes a very bad offshoot... Total intolerance of others belief systems. And to square that bad combination of fundamentalism and intolerance, comes the belief in violence towards others that do not share this belief system. There is not another worldwide religion, AT THIS TIME, that shows such a largescale widespread ingrained belief system that encompasses these 3 most volatile attributes coming together at one time. Houston we have an obvious malfunction. It is very clear to me.

This is not to say we do not find radical Christian and Hindu groups, we do. But the % of people that practice a nonviolent, tolerant, nonfundamentalist view of these religions is much larger. Although if the Pope does not have someone review his speeches before he spouts out hatred... He lost a heck of a lot of standing, apology or not... Speaking of that, the last apology that came from another worldwide religious leader that is spreading the word of Islam in Iran and places beyond was when...? And has he lost standing?
And the last time he was criticized so heavily by other Islamic nations that they forced him into an apology happened when?

Pgardn,
Pope Benedict writes his own speeches.
In his resume is service in the Hitler Youth.
I titled this thread for a reason, at a dangerous time when there doesn't seem to be very much of it.
DTS

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

I notice you mention radical Christian and Hindu groups and you have issues with Islam. Let me guess, you are Jewish.

I will let you guess. And you are dead wrong. Which is not suprising.

Yes indeed there are fundamentalist Jewish groups. Recall they had a Prime Minister killed by one of these freaks.

Why would Nostradamus need to guess?
Does he not just know I was raised?

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Why would Nostradamus need to guess?
Does he not just know I was raised?

Silly...he tells the future...not the past!

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

DTS: I was pretty sure you weren't a Muslim. Actually, as a white American, I feel kinda targeted too! We disagree on things, but I'm not calling for your head on a platter! These people need to level off and IF they can find a effective leader...then maybe they won't feel targeted because they'll have a voice!

Timm,
Though you and I disagree on some things, I do agree that calling for someone's head is way out...WAY!
I am also a white American.
I can only guess how Native Americans, African Americans, who were previously "targeted", and yes, even currently... Arab Americans feel during these trying times.
Effective leaders? There certainly have been many voices from all sides, Christian, Muslim...on and on.
Leaders only have effect if there are others that find wisdom in their positions. Then and only then do those they lead feel empowered enough to follow truth, seek security, find commonality, and quest peace.
"False Messiahs" abound.
We all only need see them for what they are.
DTS

[timmgirvan]

DTS: I would think,then,that the Arab world should stop bickering amongst themselves religiously and start finding a political voice with which to deliver their message!

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Silly...he tells the future...not the past!

Oh yes. My bad. So in 2 years from now, how well will the Protist Kingdom be doing compared to the Archeabacteria?

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

DTS: I would think,then,that the Arab world should stop bickering amongst themselves religiously and start finding a political voice with which to deliver their message!

Timm,
Unfortunately, they have found a political voice to deliver their message, actually several...though I don't agree with any of them.
I just saw the interview with Iran's president. Williams asked him some difficult questions and he responded with answers that many will hear.
Again, I don't agree with his position.
Many in Iran listen to the Iman, though I don't agree with him either.
There is unity in their thoughts.
This makes the situation all the more dangerous, especially when the Pope gives them a reason to feel antagonized.
"There will be tribulation."
So...as Pilate asked, "What is truth?"
I think you know the answer.

DTS