Dutrow loses appeal

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Dutrow is going to have a tough time going federal. As run of the mill as his violations seem to us hardcore players, to those not in the game he sounds terrible.

Let's hope Tricky Ritchy is back with the girlfriend and he teachers her how to train just like him.

[MISTERGEE]

she is already better than him. Teaks North wins sunshine million turf stakes race at 8-1 (by me should have been 80-1} Wins easily going wire to wire and had just run 10th in a 75K purse race!!!!!!!!!!

[Calzone Lord]

Why can't one of these trainers just come out and be honest?

Lance Armstrong is an unbelievably revolting and disgusting person ... and not just because of all the professional careers he tried (and often succeeded) to ruin whenever anyone tried to claim he wasn't clean.

Even worse than that, is just the way that guy is all image conscious to a sickening extent. That ridiculous interview he did made it more clear what kind of detestable piece of crap he is. He is ALL about image and that is truly disgusting.

Seriously, if Lance Armstrong said this..

"Yeah I took PEDs, I blood doped, I did a lot of stuff and I ruined A LOT of careers and I'm not sorry for it at all.

You people only care about me because I beat cancer and spent 7 years being completely unstoppable. Hey France, hows my ass taste!? To all my former sponsors, thanks for the millions and millions. Oprah, I really hope that helps your ratings. You people are all a bunch of suckers and you all can die in a fire for all I care. And a special thanks to the press for kissing my ass for so long. Nice work you guys did with building up Mante Te'o. Peace out"

I wouldn't have much problem with him...because if he said that, he's telling the truth and putting image aside for the first time ever.

[MISTERGEE]

Dutrows friend Michelle Nevin passed the trainer exam on a wedn and won the Sunshine Million turf stake on a Sat

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by MISTERGEE

Dutrows friend Michelle Nevin passed the trainer exam on a wedn and won the Sunshine Million turf stake on a Sat

They always do.

He passed it on to Cleveland Johnson as well when CJ was the program trainer for him...

Anyone want to take a guess which year he filled in briefly as the program trainer for Rick Dutrow Jr. while Dutrow served a suspension for a couple of weeks.

[MISTERGEE]

yep, just slightly obvious. great example

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by MISTERGEE

she is already better than him. Teaks North wins sunshine million turf stakes race at 8-1 (by me should have been 80-1} Wins easily going wire to wire and had just run 10th in a 75K purse race!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah.. There's no way a horse could possibly go :25.3, :52.0, 1:16.3 & 1:40.4 on the front end and win in 1:52.4 in restricted company. Setting an outrageous pace like that, how could the whole field not blow past him? Of course off that 10th place finish v. open company -- which came as a prep for the Sun Mill after being away 11 months -- I suppose he might have been 80-1 had he not been an obvious play on the sheets and listed as a Best Bet for Thoro-Graph users.

[Calzone Lord]

Teaks North had a lot of great figures on everyones numbers before the long layoff. Obviously he was a major contender if he got back to that form in his second start off of the layoff.

Whether he was a very likely winner in one handicappers opinion -- or a very unlikely winner in another handicappers opinion -- it's 100% pointless.

The obvious point is that when trainers go on suspension -- people are foolish if they expect form declines because of the suspension and the horse running under the name of someone else.

Doesn't work like that. Everytime Dutrow Jr. has been suspended -- going all the way back to the great Cleveland Johnson -- his horses have run everybit the same with him gone.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Yeah.. There's no way a horse could possibly go :25.3, :52.0, 1:16.3 & 1:40.4 on the front end and win in 1:52.4 in restricted company. Setting an outrageous pace like that, how could the whole field not blow past him? Of course off that 10th place finish v. open company -- which came as a prep for the Sun Mill after being away 11 months -- I suppose he might have been 80-1 had he not been an obvious play on the sheets and listed as a Best Bet for Thoro-Graph users.

I know a couple of smart handicappers, not Thorograph or Sheets users, who liked him as well. Clearly there were ample reasons to like him ( and, as you said, the absurd pace didn't hurt ).

I was surprised Javier dropped the favorite completely out of it. It was clearly a paceless race, he has shown some speed in the past, an Javier is one of the few who takes advantage of the frequent grabfests.

[Calzone Lord]

The filly and mare race went a half second faster -- but it's hard to put too much stock in time on a turf course that's so yielding.

If they put me down as the program trainer for Dutrow Jr. -- the show would go on.

Obviously Dutrow Jr. isn't quite the magician he once was and he has toned down his genius a lot ... but another name showing up as the trainer in the form isn't going to change anything or cause form declines.

[Calzone Lord]

By the way, reading comprehension can be extremely difficult sometimes, even for smart people.

My Lance Armstrong is a scumbag take was a 100% independent thought and had nothing at all to do with Teaks North or the poster above me.

It went to the topic at hand and not to the post above me -- which is why nothing was quoted.

Sorry I have to explain it like this.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Career 27% trainer -- a fill in for Dutrow Jr. on suspension.

[docicu3]

Drugs ......Hasn't this guy been the emergent pinch hitter for horses in Florida and New York in years past during Dutrow's shorter suspensions and won at about this same rate.....if so just business as usual.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by docicu3

Drugs ......Hasn't this guy been the emergent pinch hitter for horses in Florida and New York in years past during Dutrow's shorter suspensions and won at about this same rate.....if so just business as usual.

Yes -- it's the program or system that wins.

Dutrow Jr. doesn't even need to bother to show up.

There was a former Scott Lake asst trainer who went out on his own and was based at Philly Park from 2000 through 2005. Here were his stats with sprinters:

2000: 3-for-5 (60%) $6.20 ROI
2001: 10-for-35 (29%) $2.41 ROI
2002: 32-for-103 (31%) $3.89 ROI
2003: 36-for-163 (22%) $2.27 ROI
2004: 36-for-184 (20%) $2.33 ROI
2005: 45-for-195 (23%) $3.03 ROI
'00 to '05: 162-for-685 (24%) $2.78 ROI

He told me "listen, jerk. I can be on my computer for 23 hours a day and still win at 20%"

He wasn't getting it done because he was some shrewd horseman or brilliant handicapper ... he was getting it done like that because he was Scott Lake's program without the brand name of a Scott Lake.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Yeah.. There's no way a horse could possibly go :25.3, :52.0, 1:16.3 & 1:40.4 on the front end and win in 1:52.4 in restricted company. Setting an outrageous pace like that, how could the whole field not blow past him? Of course off that 10th place finish v. open company -- which came as a prep for the Sun Mill after being away 11 months -- I suppose he might have been 80-1 had he not been an obvious play on the sheets and listed as a Best Bet for Thoro-Graph users.

Using the GP timer to support your argument is bit disconcerning. The horse may or may not have been logical that isn't the point of the thread nor is if you bet the horse because you thought he repp'd good value. The point of the thread is addressing that a person close to Richard Dutrow got her license and had instant success with the horse. If you feel its your place to comment on her instant success in a 150 to 200k race we would all love to read your candid thoughts. Debunking a dudes opinion on why a horse wasnt logical surely isnt the tenor of this space.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Using the GP timer to support your argument is bit disconcerning. The horse may or may not have been logical that isn't the point of the thread nor is if you bet the horse because you thought he repp'd good value. The point of the thread is addressing that a person close to Richard Dutrow got her license and had instant success with the horse. If you feel its your place to comment on her instant success in a 150 to 200k race we would all love to read your candid thoughts. Debunking a dudes opinion on why a horse wasnt logical surely isnt the tenor of this space.

Because she is listed as trainer as opposed to asst trainer is meaningless. She didnt have instant success as the system that the horse was in didnt change in 2 days.

Remember when Helen Pitts was the next hot trainer? They don't all become Rudy

[Kasept]

Sorry Freddie... The GP teletimer can't belie the way in which the race was run and won. And Michele Nevin has been training the horse for months, since he returned from the farm. As Andy said, there was no end to the positive views of Teaks North from quality opinion-holders going into the race. The pell-mell notion that the horse was a plugged in put-over is ridiculous and a distortion of reality. And I don't want it perpetuated here.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Using the GP timer to support your argument is bit disconcerning. The horse may or may not have been logical that isn't the point of the thread nor is if you bet the horse because you thought he repp'd good value. The point of the thread is addressing that a person close to Richard Dutrow got her license and had instant success with the horse. If you feel its your place to comment on her instant success in a 150 to 200k race we would all love to read your candid thoughts. Debunking a dudes opinion on why a horse wasnt logical surely isnt the tenor of this space.

Check the charts, then the Trakus times, then get back to me about the tele-timer.

[MISTERGEE]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Using the GP timer to support your argument is bit disconcerning. The horse may or may not have been logical that isn't the point of the thread nor is if you bet the horse because you thought he repp'd good value. The point of the thread is addressing that a person close to Richard Dutrow got her license and had instant success with the horse. If you feel its your place to comment on her instant success in a 150 to 200k race we would all love to read your candid thoughts. Debunking a dudes opinion on why a horse wasnt logical surely isnt the tenor of this space.

thanks Freddymo! My point was never that this was a "putover" but in going along with Calzones point of the trainer takeover. I no longer have the form in front of me but I could show the PP's to 1000 capable handicappers and very few would put that horses chances at 8-1. I beleive its last 3 or 4 races were terrible compared to the way it ran on Sat, and yeah there was no speed in the race which Pletcher seemed worried about beforehand but nobody did anything about it letting this one walk around the track

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by MISTERGEE

thanks Freddymo! My point was never that this was a "putover" but in going along with Calzones point of the trainer takeover. I no longer have the form in front of me but I could show the PP's to 1000 capable handicappers and very few would put that horses chances at 8-1. I beleive its last 3 or 4 races were terrible compared to the way it ran on Sat, and yeah there was no speed in the race which Pletcher seemed worried about beforehand but nobody did anything about it letting this one walk around the track

To me this isnt about if the horse was logical.. BTW I think if Kasept and Serling thought the horse was OK then I am sure he was playable. Again not the point, the point is to me at least, horses going to a new old barn if you get my drift.