My theory and feelings on Polytrack

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Its kinda like I am getting the feeling you are saying God made these animals for our pleasure to watch run in an oval around a dirt track. That is... well, to be nice, more than silly. I understand people do not like change. And the industry may be jumping on the stuff too fast for what some people who dont like change are used to. I can understand that.

If this was directed towards me, that is not the case at all. You are assuming that I have ideas that I don't actually hold. You implied in your post that the first horses did not run on sand, and that just isn't true. I was just pointing out that the first hot-blooded horses were those that ran on desert sand, not on grass or polytrack. Sure, we've selectively bred Thoroughbreds for increased speed throughout the decades. But, that doesn't not change the fact that the first horses ran on sand. Also, the species of Equus caballus is a lot more than 400 years old.

I stand firm against polytrack because I believe that there are better ways to handle the issue of breakdowns in racehorses. All polytrack does is cover up the REAL problems of racing like breeding, drugs, and crooked training and management methods.

Originally Posted by TitanSooner

how do you group them together in this context?? don't certain players excel on the artificial turf than real grass.. come on!!! They've ruined the NFL.

sounds silly doesn't it.

LOL!!! Thanks for making my point Titan, and Joels as well without realizing it.
When artificial turf came about the teams(baseball and football) and league were sold on it the same EXACT way that the tracks have been sold on Poly. They were told of no maintenance costs, and convinced that it would be just as safe as grass.
Funny that almost every stadium that put in has ripped it out, and that all new stadiums built use grass. The only holdovers being domes with no retractable roofs.
If you don't see the irony of that, well.........................

Originally Posted by oracle80

If anyone doesn't realize that this will have horrible impacts on the breeding industry, they are mistaken.
You crash the bloodstock market Pgard, and you will crash the whole game.
The reality is that the residual value is the only way you can win as an owner. You dilute the whole bloodstock market and crash the prices, you cansay goodbye to everyone but the Sheikhs and Coolmore. Noone else can afford to piss away money like that. Do you know how few yearlings purchased for over 100 grand ever earn themselves out BEFORE the additional expenses? Take away the hope on the back end, and you got nothing.

Im sorry but I cant forsee markets like you can. I am not MR. Wallstreet. Did dirt racing ruin turf racing?

[TitanSooner]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

We can also vote, can horses? Comon with that crap....you also don't have to hunt your pray in the widl either. You know humans don't apply to the rest....thats why we run the planet.....please don't compare humans in the same categories as other mammals, etc....

Then don't tell me God created thoroughbreds to run on dirt and grass when God created no such thing. WE created thoroughbreds to run the way they do and things change so get a grip with YOUR CRAP.

Originally Posted by pgardn

Its kinda like I am getting the feeling you are saying God made these animals for our pleasure to watch run in an oval around a dirt track. That is... well, to be nice, more than silly. I understand people do not like change. And the industry may be jumping on the stuff too fast for what some people who dont like change are used to. I can understand that.

No, thats not what I'm saying, genius...follow along little Joey:

God gave frogs long tongues to catch their prey, he gave lizards a green/camillian (sp?) complextion to hide from its predators, he gave bears long claws to hunt in the wild and creeks for food, ETC. ETC. ETC..... could go on for days.....

In terms of MOBILITY, he gave fish fins to swim through their climate, which is water, HE GAVE HORSES THE HOOVES AND BIO-MECHANICS TO RUN OVER DIRT AND GRASS, PERIOD....

Understand now?

I'm not completely sold on the surface being safer. The way some horses have been slipping and sliding at Keeneland it's only a matter of time before a major spill happens.

Hopefully then the silent majority will speak up.

Originally Posted by pgardn

Im sorry but I cant forsee markets like you can. I am not MR. Wallstreet. Did dirt racing ruin turf racing?

It wasn't a BUSINESS back then like it is now. If you don't realize that, there is no point in discussing it.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Well, I do think that polytrack prevents breakdowns, but we have dirt surfaces here in the United States that are pretty safe as well. Of course, no surface is going to prevent EVERY horse from breaking down. Heck, I've had horses break down just playing around in the pastures before.

Originally Posted by oracle80

LOL!!! Thanks for making my point Titan, and Joels as well without realizing it.
When artificial turf came about the teams(baseball and football) and league were sold on it the same EXACT way that the tracks have been sold on Poly. They were told of no maintenance costs, and convinced that it would be just as safe as grass.
Funny that almost every stadium that put in has ripped it out, and that all new stadiums built use grass. The only holdovers being domes with no retractable roofs.
If you don't see the irony of that, well.........................

Irony. Oracle you just pulled your own.
Now you just ruined your own point by bringing up injuries. Grass in football has been brought back mainly because of injuries. Oracle, you did exactly what you claimed what someone else did. Ruin your own point. The initial results do look like polytrac may be best for the safety of the animals. But I withold on this. To little data still. But it clearly is leaning one way at present.

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

I'm not completely sold on the surface being safer. The way some horses have been slipping and sliding at Keeneland it's only a matter of time before a major spill happens.

Hopefully then the silent majority will speak up.

Quote by Gary Stevens was that last spring he saw a lotta sore horses in the back end at Turfway.
yeah, you avoid breakdowns and deaths ON THE TRACK.
But vets are working overtime with back ends, and tendons and suspensories that get ruined don't make the papers as breakdowns.
Theres a lotta propaganda out there.
I think Himmler is handling the PR on this deal.

Originally Posted by pgardn

Im sorry but I cant forsee markets like you can. I am not MR. Wallstreet. Did dirt racing ruin turf racing?

Turf racing in the United States is comparable to the bench of a basketball team. The stars play on the dirt. Changing all of the dirt tracks to poly is like the NBA installing clay courts.

Originally Posted by pgardn

Irony. Oracle you just pulled your own.
Now you just ruined your own point by bringing up injuries. Grass has been brought back mainly because of injuries. Oracle, you did exactly what you claimed what someone else did. Ruin your own point. The initial results do look like polytrac may be best for the safety of the animals. But I withold on this. To little data still. But it clearly is leaning one way at present.

YOu talk to a lotta trainers and owners about hind end problems, and tendons do you?
Obviously not. You read what you read, and call it a fact.
You don't know the whole story.

Originally Posted by pba1817

Sorry but as a fan of horse racing and a handicapper, I am not worried about the future of the breeding lines what so ever.

Unless you have some sort of financial interest in the breeding industry, you should'nt give a rats ass about the breeding side of it.

I have an ENORMOUS financial interest in the breeding industry and I rely on my knowledge - that I've worked very hard to attain - to breed my horses. My dad invested a lot of money in this game on my confidence and now i have to go back and tell him that his advisor will just be guessing based on no feel or statistics when i choose the breeds forn his mares this year. If you owned $600,000 in horses would you want to hear that lack of faith from your advisor?

And don't knick me, I'd put my knowledge up against most when it comes to pedigrees and breeding imperfections out of horses and qualities into horses....I've talked to many bloodtsock agents who have NO clue as to what will perform over this crap....

[pba1817]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

No, thats not what I'm saying, genius...follow along little Joey:

God gave frogs long tongues to catch their prey, he gave lizards a green/camillian (sp?) complextion to hide from its predators, he gave bears long claws to hunt in the wild and creeks for food, ETC. ETC. ETC..... could go on for days.....

In terms of MOBILITY, he gave fish fins to swim through their climate, which is water, HE GAVE HORSES THE HOOVES AND BIO-MECHANICS TO RUN OVER DIRT AND GRASS, PERIOD....

Understand now?

What's god got to do with any of this??

[TitanSooner]

Originally Posted by oracle80

LOL!!! Thanks for making my point Titan, and Joels as well without realizing it.
When artificial turf came about the teams(baseball and football) and league were sold on it the same EXACT way that the tracks have been sold on Poly. They were told of no maintenance costs, and convinced that it would be just as safe as grass.
Funny that almost every stadium that put in has ripped it out, and that all new stadiums built use grass. The only holdovers being domes with no retractable roofs.
If you don't see the irony of that, well.........................

and they've now created artificial surfaces that are much closer to the real thing.. it took some time but they've found it. I'm certain that the artificial race track will evolve the same way and trainers will find methods to be more effective on it.

Again, if I do not accept the polytrack then I am going to be SOL on playing the horses out here on California which is not something I'm ready to do. Some might not want to play it, and that's their choice.

In a few years I think that everything will be just fine. Those that do not want to play will stop, those that continue to play will learn, and new blood will be brought into the game.


And God will be happy that we are treating his precious Thoroughbred much better.

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

I have an ENORMOUS financial interest in the breeding industry and I rely on my knowledge - that I've worked very hard to attain - to breed my horses. My dad invested a lot of money in this game on my confidence and now i have to go back and tell him that his advisor will just be guessing based on no feel or statistics when i choose the breeds forn his mares this year. If you owned $600,000 in horses would you want to hear that lack of faith from your advisor?

And don't knick me, I'd put my knowledge up against most when it comes to pedigrees and breeding imperfections out of horses and qualities into horses....I've talked to many bloodtsock agents who have NO clue as to what will perform over this crap....

Not to mention trainers who have virtually no idea either.

Originally Posted by oracle80

It wasn't a BUSINESS back then like it is now. If you don't realize that, there is no point in discussing it.

Wait a minute. It was not/is not a business in Europe, Japan, and Hong Kong? Holy sh it you got a story. You guys are digging in deeper.

Originally Posted by TitanSooner

and they've now created artificial surfaces that are much closer to the real thing.. it took some time but they've found it. I'm certain that the artificial race track will evolve the same way and trainers will find methods to be more effective on it.

Again, if I do not accept the polytrack then I am going to be SOL on playing the horses out here on California which is not something I'm ready to do. Some might not want to play it, and that's their choice.

In a few years I think that everything will be just fine. Those that do not want to play will stop, those that continue to play will learn, and new blood will be brought into the game.


And God will be happy that we are treating his precious Thoroughbred much better.

New blood isn't coming NOW!!!!!!!! THATS THE BIGGEST PROBLEM WE HAVE!!!!! WHAT THE HELL MAKES YOU THINK NEW BLOOD WILL COME IF WE DESTROY THE FINANCIAL STRUCTURE!!!??????

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Over/under on lengths beaten by Asi Siempre if she actually goes in the Distaff, I'm setting it at 22.

She'll only lose by 11, they'll all be plodding home in the end.

[pba1817]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

I have an ENORMOUS financial interest in the breeding industry and I rely on my knowledge - that I've worked very hard to attain - to breed my horses. My dad invested a lot of money in this game on my confidence and now i have to go back and tell him that his advisor will just be guessing based on no feel or statistics when i choose the breeds forn his mares this year. If you owned $600,000 in horses would you want to hear that lack of faith from your advisor?

And don't knick me, I'd put my knowledge up against most when it comes to pedigrees and breeding imperfections out of horses and qualities into horses....I've talked to many bloodtsock agents who have NO clue as to what will perform over this crap....

I sympathize with your situation, I truly do. But in all honesty, having such financial interest in the industry, you should have been as best prepared as you could for this change when it was announced a few years ago.

I think that the better breeds still drop the fastest horses, regardless of racing surface, some breeds will rise, some will fall, but overall I do not think there will be a major change of tides in the breeding industry.