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  #41  
Old 11-03-2015, 10:56 PM
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philcski philcski is offline
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Originally Posted by Merlinsky View Post
I bet the sister-in-law wants a G1 on her resume too and this is a quick way to get it.

An argument with Mac's sister-in-law is totally gonna get you canned (was it over whether he was sound for something like the Malibu?) and I can believe they've been trying to tell her what to do since the King's Bishop. They didn't know he was gonna do this well and when he did, they thought they could just make her a figurehead but being a person of substance she didn't wanna roll over and compromise her principles. I don't buy for a minute that there was absolutely no physical issue. Who'd know Runhappy inside and out better than Maria with her experience? Maybe it ended up not being as serious, but nothing? Nah. They probably didn't think they could get away with firing her before. Turns out Laura Wohlers allegedly found and initially trained Runhappy and got too busy at the store or something? http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-...030-story.html Seriously, lady, work at a store, train horses, one or the other. Not someone I'd want training if she's also focused on the family business.
Actually, a guy on this board whom we all know and love trained the horse first as a 2yo.

McIngvale is the definition of scum. Horrible person, horrible business practices.
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  #42  
Old 11-03-2015, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by RHT2004 View Post
This is from the comment section in the Paulick report.... These are not my words, but if this is true would it change anything?


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ADavidson • 33 minutes ago





Maria is being sued for animal neglect and property damage done to a farm she leased. She owes dozens of people at the training center money. She's NOT a good person or good horseman!! This is KARMA at work.
If she's a "program trainer" that Mattress Jerk is making her out to be, then he should be on the hook for paying for service at the training center. The rest smells of a smear campaign to push his agenda.
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  #43  
Old 11-04-2015, 08:11 AM
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Couple of Paulick articles...

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ra...d-what-we-did/

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ra...out-the-money/
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  #44  
Old 11-04-2015, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by bare it all View Post
From the first link:

"Jim McIngvale interjected that Linda McIngvale “is concerned about the welfare of all animals. My wife has had monkeys and parrots in the furniture store,” he said."

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  #45  
Old 11-04-2015, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by GenuineRisk View Post
From the first link:

"Jim McIngvale interjected that Linda McIngvale “is concerned about the welfare of all animals. My wife has had monkeys and parrots in the furniture store,” he said."

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  #46  
Old 11-04-2015, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by bare it all View Post
oh, man...that first article. ya better have boots on when you read it, cuz it gets deep into horse crap.
so, this girl was a bad trainer, and didn't keep stalls clean, etc...but they leave horses with her? c'mon man.
over 30 trainers....yikes.
sounds like a guy i worked for years ago, for a few months. found out what kind of clown he was and skedaddled.


“Another horse, Triplehott, had a bad knee that was arthritic. They didn’t want to stop on Triplehott and wanted to get her claimed.” The City Zip filly won at Arlington in June, giving Borell her first career victory, and was claimed for $50,000. Triplehott has raced once since then.

ugh
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  #47  
Old 11-04-2015, 02:00 PM
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A comment on the PR from a guy named Wane Stacy says it best:

"Lets make no mistake about the purpose and tone of my post; or my experience in the industry....I have none. I am a photographer. I see emotion and read people through a lens. I have been an acquaintance of Marie for a little over a year. But I am not a "dear friend". I have seen how she has treated and cared for this horse, and it is beyond anything I have seen before when it comes to turning around a "failing" in any business.

To remove Maria as trainer of this horse is going to be devastating for this animal. Does anyone actually believe that RH is going to receive the same attention from Wohlers? is she going to take naps in the stall with this horse? spend nights in the barn with this horse? Not a chance, outside of workout day, and race day she will never be near this animal, and on those days, she won't get any closer than the grandstand, or the rail, until it is time for a photo op.

People have continually tried to throw Wohlers "training" experience up as though she has some wonderful resume.....when the obverse is actually true.

Since the year 2000 she has had 11 stakes races, and her best finish was 2nd with Objective, in 2006. She has only finished in the money that one time. throwing out the 2nd place finish, she has an average finish of 6th place over 10 races in 15 years.....is that who you want training your horse, if you are in fact someone who wants your racehorses to win money?

While on the obverse...Maria has had 6 stakes races, and finished 1st in all but one, a 12th place finish by Sgt. Sandals in 2014...

Young, new, old, hot, ugly.......if you are a horseman/woman, this is who you want training your horses.

Unless,....

What I do know is business, and business is no different from one type to the next. You have businesses that are geared to profit, and those geared to failure. some do it by design, others do it out of ignorance, some do it out of love.

People open restaurants because they love food, and they want you to love their food. Most close within 5 years; many within 24 months....it wasn't about money. It was about love.

Many big businesses want profits from the creation of a service, or device, to dominate, Apple, Microsoft, etc, etc......if a service or product fails, it kills it because its all about the profits.

there are two kinds of of racehorse owners...

Those who out of love and ignorance will invest time, energy, and countless dollars into an animal and a team because they have love for an animal and they believe in it......the money is no consideration.

Those who look at a racehorse as a way to write off debt as a capital gains loss, and tax deduction.

Jim McIngvale is the later in my opinion. Every single time he has a trainer, rider, horse that is ready to take the world by storm, create a great buzz, put the stakes earnings on track to profit......he destroys it. Because if the horse is a winner, then he pays taxes...he is no longer creating deductions on loses.

This man keeps throwing horses at his inept sister in law because he knows she couldn't train a barrel to hold trash.

Maria was fired because she and RH made money......

You want proof?

First off, you don't fire 35 (now 36) of the best trainers in the business over the course of 18 years without being a little bit touched in the head...

Since 1997 McIngvales has posted 31 stakes horses. subtract RH from the lot and you are left with 27 races. in 18 years his horses have had three 1st place finishers, two 2nd place finishers, and two 3rd place finishers.....in 18 years. his average finish for a horse is 5.4 always outside the money.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that he uses horse racing to offset the profits obtained as the "mattress king"...

Wohlers is a middle management yes man(woman), who went crying to the brass when she didn't get her way in front of the "help". McIngvales is a narcissist who believes anyone else's face on the screen or in print other than his own...does him an injustice.

If RH goes off to California and finishes a race higher than 5th place.......I will be beyond astounded.

They can try to spin their PR all they like, but they can't spin math and statistics.
"
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  #48  
Old 11-04-2015, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arletta View Post
A comment on the PR from a guy named Wane Stacy says it best:

"Lets make no mistake about the purpose and tone of my post; or my experience in the industry....I have none. I am a photographer. I see emotion and read people through a lens. I have been an acquaintance of Marie for a little over a year. But I am not a "dear friend". I have seen how she has treated and cared for this horse, and it is beyond anything I have seen before when it comes to turning around a "failing" in any business.

To remove Maria as trainer of this horse is going to be devastating for this animal. Does anyone actually believe that RH is going to receive the same attention from Wohlers? is she going to take naps in the stall with this horse? spend nights in the barn with this horse? Not a chance, outside of workout day, and race day she will never be near this animal, and on those days, she won't get any closer than the grandstand, or the rail, until it is time for a photo op.

People have continually tried to throw Wohlers "training" experience up as though she has some wonderful resume.....when the obverse is actually true.

Since the year 2000 she has had 11 stakes races, and her best finish was 2nd with Objective, in 2006. She has only finished in the money that one time. throwing out the 2nd place finish, she has an average finish of 6th place over 10 races in 15 years.....is that who you want training your horse, if you are in fact someone who wants your racehorses to win money?

While on the obverse...Maria has had 6 stakes races, and finished 1st in all but one, a 12th place finish by Sgt. Sandals in 2014...

Young, new, old, hot, ugly.......if you are a horseman/woman, this is who you want training your horses.

Unless,....

What I do know is business, and business is no different from one type to the next. You have businesses that are geared to profit, and those geared to failure. some do it by design, others do it out of ignorance, some do it out of love.

People open restaurants because they love food, and they want you to love their food. Most close within 5 years; many within 24 months....it wasn't about money. It was about love.

Many big businesses want profits from the creation of a service, or device, to dominate, Apple, Microsoft, etc, etc......if a service or product fails, it kills it because its all about the profits.

there are two kinds of of racehorse owners...

Those who out of love and ignorance will invest time, energy, and countless dollars into an animal and a team because they have love for an animal and they believe in it......the money is no consideration.

Those who look at a racehorse as a way to write off debt as a capital gains loss, and tax deduction.

Jim McIngvale is the later in my opinion. Every single time he has a trainer, rider, horse that is ready to take the world by storm, create a great buzz, put the stakes earnings on track to profit......he destroys it. Because if the horse is a winner, then he pays taxes...he is no longer creating deductions on loses.

This man keeps throwing horses at his inept sister in law because he knows she couldn't train a barrel to hold trash.

Maria was fired because she and RH made money......

You want proof?

First off, you don't fire 35 (now 36) of the best trainers in the business over the course of 18 years without being a little bit touched in the head...

Since 1997 McIngvales has posted 31 stakes horses. subtract RH from the lot and you are left with 27 races. in 18 years his horses have had three 1st place finishers, two 2nd place finishers, and two 3rd place finishers.....in 18 years. his average finish for a horse is 5.4 always outside the money.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that he uses horse racing to offset the profits obtained as the "mattress king"...

Wohlers is a middle management yes man(woman), who went crying to the brass when she didn't get her way in front of the "help". McIngvales is a narcissist who believes anyone else's face on the screen or in print other than his own...does him an injustice.

If RH goes off to California and finishes a race higher than 5th place.......I will be beyond astounded.

They can try to spin their PR all they like, but they can't spin math and statistics.
"
Mattress King is a class 1 doucgebag but what I highlighted above is preposterous that is in it to lose.... If that was the case then why run a horse that is favored in a race with a 1.5 million dollar purse ?
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  #49  
Old 11-04-2015, 02:41 PM
Danzig Danzig is offline
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Originally Posted by jms62 View Post
Mattress King is a class 1 doucgebag but what I highlighted above is preposterous that is in it to lose.... If that was the case then why run a horse that is favored in a race with a 1.5 million dollar purse ?
well, for horses and taxes, you have to show a profit two of seven years. so, this will probably be one of those two.
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  #50  
Old 11-05-2015, 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by jms62 View Post
Mattress King is a class 1 doucgebag but what I highlighted above is preposterous that is in it to lose.... If that was the case then why run a horse that is favored in a race with a 1.5 million dollar purse ?
I had the same reaction. It makes no sense to purposely lose money so that you pay less taxes on your other income. You still come out a net loser on the combined income/loss. The guy is stupid, but probably not that stupid. Or, at least his accountants are probably not that stupid.
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  #51  
Old 11-05-2015, 09:58 AM
Danzig Danzig is offline
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Originally Posted by Dunbar View Post
I had the same reaction. It makes no sense to purposely lose money so that you pay less taxes on your other income. You still come out a net loser on the combined income/loss. The guy is stupid, but probably not that stupid. Or, at least his accountants are probably not that stupid.
i don't recommend using logic to try to understand illogical things or people. it'll give you a headache!
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  #52  
Old 11-05-2015, 10:34 AM
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It hasn't been pointed out yet that Maria is quite the cutie too
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  #53  
Old 11-05-2015, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Danzig View Post
i don't recommend using logic to try to understand illogical things or people. it'll give you a headache!
True 'dat. Like, why does a guy worth $70 million not just pay the woman the $126,000 she claims she's owed and be done with it.

That said, there's no one like the ultra wealthy to be ultra cheap.

I'm also skeptical the issue was over trying to create a tax loss, because, if he's been losing money every year on the horses, the IRS likely doesn't let him claim them as deductions anymore anyway. Hobby loss, or something like that.

If anyone's interested, this article explains profit and loss in the horse business pretty well:
https://asci.uvm.edu/equine/law/horselaw/hobby.htm

The particular one that I think would make it hard for the Mattress King to declare the racing expenses a loss against his other income is:

"8. Taxpayer's financial status. The fact that the taxpayer does not have substantial income unrelated to the horse activities may indicate that the activity is engaged in for a profit. The cases in which the IRS challenges deductions under the hobby rule are cases in which the taxpayer has a very substantial income from sources unrelated to the horse activity."
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  #54  
Old 11-05-2015, 11:06 AM
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With all due respect, do people here make the same sort of snap judgments in their everyday lives that they are making in this thread? If so, how does that work out for you?

There are a lot of moving parts in this discussion, and I think it's at least reasonable to assume the story is not as black and white as people here, and all over the internet, are suggesting.
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  #55  
Old 11-05-2015, 11:47 AM
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3 sides to every story. His / hers / the truth. Pretty sure it's been like that for 100 years
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  #56  
Old 11-05-2015, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind View Post
With all due respect, do people here make the same sort of snap judgments in their everyday lives that they are making in this thread? If so, how does that work out for you?

There are a lot of moving parts in this discussion, and I think it's at least reasonable to assume the story is not as black and white as people here, and all over the internet, are suggesting.
of course, but what kind of fun is that logic.
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  #57  
Old 11-05-2015, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind View Post
With all due respect, do people here make the same sort of snap judgments in their everyday lives that they are making in this thread? If so, how does that work out for you?

There are a lot of moving parts in this discussion, and I think it's at least reasonable to assume the story is not as black and white as people here, and all over the internet, are suggesting.
i have no doubt that is true.
i haven't made any judgements, because there's always at least three sides to every story...
but i did want to make sure anyone saying 'tax write off' knows that he can't have a loss each year, else it's a hobby.

as for the firing, i don't know why anyone would be surprised that he fired his latest trainer, he has quite a track record of that.
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  #58  
Old 11-05-2015, 12:49 PM
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We are not in the industry nor do we have a means to talk directly to the parties therefore we shouldn't voice an opinion based upon what is being presented in the media and on the Internet. Business as usual.
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  #59  
Old 11-05-2015, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind View Post
With all due respect, do people here make the same sort of snap judgments in their everyday lives that they are making in this thread? If so, how does that work out for you?

There are a lot of moving parts in this discussion, and I think it's at least reasonable to assume the story is not as black and white as people here, and all over the internet, are suggesting.
The guys reputation speaks for itself and any criticism made towards him is more than warranted. No one respected the guy much before this, and even less so now. He deserves all the backlash that he is getting.
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  #60  
Old 11-05-2015, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind View Post
With all due respect, do people here make the same sort of snap judgments in their everyday lives that they are making in this thread? If so, how does that work out for you?

There are a lot of moving parts in this discussion, and I think it's at least reasonable to assume the story is not as black and white as people here, and all over the internet, are suggesting.
Surprisingly, not much has been mentioned about this whole saga by Steve on ATR.
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