Should Songbird retire?

[taxicab]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

Pretty sure she beat Stellar wind. Who has only beaten Val, not songbird. Stellar wind will never beat Songbird. She won't lose again. Her star reads all wins except in the personal ensign . awarded second money despite winning the Breeders' Cup Distaff

You have no idea how much that Distaff photo cost me....
Here's how I view Songbird.
At 2 & 3 she was as good as it gets,nobody could get near her(except Beholder)........plain and simple.
I never bought into the speed figure argument criticizing her,half the time Mike Smith had her shut down.........she could of run faster if Smith pleased.
The other "phantom" knock on her was she was third best in her first defeat..........you run that one by a majority of sharps that puts serious time/effort/money into the game and you'll be laughed out of the room.
At 3 she was better then every F/M except Beholder.........fact.
This year: I'll start this by saying I thought Beholder was through before the BCD last year..........I couldn't of been more wrong,so who's to say I won't be wrong again.
But I just don't see the same Songbird.........can't quite put my finger on it,perhaps it's as simple as she just doesn't do things as easily as before.
Or........ she's just taking awhile to sharpen this year........I don't know.
But right now I think others are going better.
Of course......if she wins the Distaff(at a number to boot)she returns to the rarefied air she was once in..........right now I don't think she will,but since this is horse racing........I'm probably wrong........she'll probably find the winners circle on BC Friday.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by taxicab

Here's how I view Songbird.
At 2 & 3 she was as good as it gets,nobody could get near her(except Beholder)........plain and simple.

She'd be maybe the sixth best filly in the crop that had Inside Information, Heavenly Prize, Lakeway, Sardula and Phone Chatter.

As good as it gets?

Wow.

[taxicab]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

She'd be maybe the sixth best filly in the crop that had Inside Information, Heavenly Prize, Lakeway, Sardula and Phone Chatter.

As good as it gets?

Wow.

Slow down a little,I wasn't referencing horses of the past.......I was talking about everything that she ran against on the track.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by taxicab

Slow down a little,I wasn't referencing horses of the past.......I was talking about everything that she ran against on the track.

Oh, sorry. I seem to be misreading people on here recently.

When you said as good as it gets, it seemed like you were engaging in Alabama Stakes level hyperbole.

[taxicab]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Oh, sorry. I seem to be misreading people on here recently.

When you said as good as it gets, it seemed like you were engaging in Alabama Stakes level hyperbole.

No sweat....
Just to engage a bit.
I'll list my top 5 F/M of all time( caveat here.......I've learned to never mention Z or RA in any thread on any message board.......for obvious reasons,so they weren't factored into this list).

1) RUFFIAN
2) Princess Rooney
3) Genuine Risk
4) Inside Information
5) Paseana

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Utter filth. Never mind historical fillies--we all know she's not as fast. But name me some contemporary females that Songbird could have faced that were consistently running faster than her at the same point in their careers.

Beholder? Nope.
Stellar Wind? No.
Untapable? Wrong.
I'm A Chatterbox? Please.
Wedding Toast? Nah.
Curlina? Try again.
Forever Unbridled? SMH.
Stopcharginmaria? Really?
Sheer Drama? Scraping the bottom here.
Got Lucky? Not quite.
Warren's Veneda? Fail.
Elate? Forget about it.
Abel Tasman? Are you serious?

The only filly I could find was Cavorting, who registered 3 straight triple digit Beyers (top of 102) last year. Of course, she "bone bruised" her way into retirement after that display, conveniently opting out of both the Beldame and the BC Distaff--you know, championship events.

And as far as absurdity goes, it doesn't get any more absurd then foregoing a post-race interview of the winner of the Personal Ensign (Joel Rosario on Forever Unbridled) to ask Mike Smith if Songbird should be retired for losing the race in a photo.

The reality is Songbird can easily win this year's BC Distaff, because as slow as she is, so is everyone else--just like last year.

Why never mind historical fillies because you are sane? That is what folks perhaps not you deemed her to be, she isnt. BTW Curlina's best was darn good infrequent but she was fast.

It was a dopey question but speaks to the insane rep she has garnered as the best EVAH. People dont know the difference between Land over Sea and Lite Light. People called her Go for Wand, Ruffian, Personal Ensign, Inside Information, Rachel, Zenyatta etc. she barely is in Ashado's league.

Several of the fillies you list would absolutely beat her half the time and that's the issue, she is as fast those and compared with the true greatest

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by freddymo

WPeople called her Go for Wand, Ruffian, Personal Ensign, Inside Information, Rachel, Zenyatta etc. she barely is in Ashado's league.

Several of the fillies you list would absolutely beat her half the time and that's the issue, she is as fast those and compared with the true greatest

Inside Information wasn't fast at 2 or 3, not particularly adept at getting two turns, and apparently not particularly sound since her 3yo season ended halfway through, so a case could be made that Songbird would have trounced her at 3.

Personal Ensign ran all of 4 times as a 3yo coming off a severe leg fracture, with only 2 starts in stakes races and only one Grade 1 (the Beldame) getting 10f in 2:04+.

Zenyatta never ran at 2 or 3 and rarely started on a dirt track.

So there's inflation on both sides of the argument. Perhaps its moot now that Songbird has run 3 relatively slow races at 4, but she theoretically still has two cracks at it.

If she throws up a 110+ or two the way Stellar Wind and Beholder did late in their careers what judgment will pass from your lips, O Wise One?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Inside Information wasn't fast at 2 or 3, not particularly adept at getting two turns, and apparently not particularly sound since her 3yo season ended halfway through, so a case could be made that Songbird would have trounced her at 3.

Personal Ensign ran all of 4 times as a 3yo coming off a severe leg fracture, with only 2 starts in stakes races and only one Grade 1 (the Beldame) getting 10f in 2:04+.

Zenyatta never ran at 2 or 3 and rarely started on a dirt track.

So there's inflation on both sides of the argument. Perhaps its moot now that Songbird has run 3 relatively slow races at 4, but she theoretically still has two cracks at it.

If she throws up a 110+ or two the way Stellar Wind and Beholder did late in their careers what judgment will pass from your lips, O Wise One?

No its moot because the ole Bone Bruising has forced her to retirement

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by freddymo

No its moot because the ole Bone Bruising has forced her to retirement

Like I posted yesterday, owner Rick Porter was the biggest hurdle Songbird would have to jump to validate her career.

I blame Maggie Wolfendale's post-race interview. Oh well.

[TouchOfGrey]

Statement from Rick Porter:

There is an ancient proverb that says all good things must come to an end. Today, Fox Hill Farm announces that something that was very good for us, and very good for racing, has come to an end -- the racing career of Songbird.

Over the Winter, Songbird had bone bruising and a specific area was very slow to heal. She was finally cleared to return, but the three races from Songbird this year weren't what we expected from the bigger, stronger, and smarter Songbird. There were so many variables with her long layoff, shipping, tiring tracks, going 1 1/4 miles, and more, we were never sure which of the variables may explain what wasn't quite Songbird.

After this past race, we thought something seemed off in her hind end, so we sent her to Rood & Riddle for an evaluation. Her lameness was readily apparent to Dr. Bramlage, and ultrasounds proved both hind suspensories were enlarged. Since suspensories are usually the result of something else amiss and he knew of her history, Dr. Bramlage shot a set of x-rays of the area of bone Songbird had issues with over the Winter. A distinct line on the bone was present. We followed up with a bone scan, and then an MRI.

Unfortunately, the results weren't what we wanted to see. We have a situation where it'd be dangerous for Songbird to continue training, and Dr. Bramlage isn't optimistic that the site will fully resolve even if given ample time.

So for this reason, we are retiring our lovely Songbird. She was an absolute joy to race, and we expect that she'll be as wonderful a broodmare as she was a racehorse. She took us on an incredible and unforgettable journey. While we're sad that we must retire her, we absolutely cannot risk having another Eight Belles kind of devastation and are ultimately happy that she is retiring in good health. May she soar to new heights in her future journey.

We'd like to publicly thank the incomparable Dr. Larry Bramlage, Dr. Katie Garrett, and the rest of the staff at Rood & Riddle. -- RICK PORTER

Photos of her Vet report at Fox Hill Farm's Facebook page. LINK

[Alabama Stakes]

Originally Posted by freddymo

No its moot because the ole Bone Bruising has forced her to retirement

You even sound like an ******* the way you post the news. Are you gonna kick a puppy or 2 on your walk back to the nursing home ?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

You even sound like an ******* the way you post the news. Are you gonna kick a puppy or 2 on your walk back to the nursing home ?

Nah love pups especially my new Tibetan Terrier Jax. I am not a vet I have no clue if she was really hurt. I dont know Dr. Bramlage I have no reason not to believe his diagnosis. That said I do wonder if her HoF trainer who was dissed by SB's owner after her defeat would have shuttled her to hospital just "because" like her owner has. She had a fine career among the very best I look forward to seeing her offspring race, I think she will be an outstanding producer.

I wonder how many graded horses can be diagnosed with "Bone Bruising" if you invest the money to investigate such. Seems to me, that running 40+ mph would cause some damage but I really dont know.

I tell you what Forever Unbridled is a complete laimo that runs by appt and I am sure we can find reasons to retire her at any moment. She must be some kind of science experiment to get fit to run

[10 pnt move up]

Forever Unbridled is not the type of horse to root for either, 3 race campaign is not exactly what the sport needs.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

You even sound like an ******* the way you post the news. Are you gonna kick a puppy or 2 on your walk back to the nursing home ?

Nah love pups especially my new Tibetan Terrier Jax. I am not a vet I have no clue if she was really hurt. I dont know Dr. Bramlage I have no reason not to believe his diagnosis. That said I do wonder if her HoF trainer who was dissed by SB's owner after her defeat would have shuttled her to hospital just "because" like her owner has. She had a fine career among the very best I look forward to seeing her offspring race, I think she will be an outstanding producer.

I wonder how many graded horses can be diagnosed with "Bone Bruising" if you invest the money to investigate such. Seems to me, that running 40+ mph would cause some damage but I really dont know.

I tell you what Forever Unbridled is a complete laimo that runs by appt and I am sure we can find reasons to retire her at any moment. She must be some kind of science experiment to get fit to run

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Forever Unbridled is not the type of horse to root for either, 3 race campaign is not exactly what the sport needs.

Come on man its astounding she runs at all you see her action down the lane? it was painful to watch. Dallas is a miracle worker.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Come on man its astounding she runs at all you see her action down the lane? it was painful to watch. Dallas is a miracle worker.

Freddy, its early for the blue stuff

[pointman]

Porter has almost as many excuses for Songbird's losses as Hillary Clinton.

[Alabama Stakes]

Originally Posted by pointman

Porter has almost as many excuses for Songbird's losses as Hillary Clinton.

Loss

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by pointman

Porter has almost as many excuses for Songbird's losses as Hillary Clinton.

Can I steal this for tweeter its Beemie worthy

[pointman]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Can I steal this for tweeter its Beemie worthy

Please feel free, Freddy!