NYRA - The Bailout Check is in the mail - Page 3

Revolution · #41 10-31-2006, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Kind of ironic for you to tell people to stick to facts don't ya think?

Those are facts. I provide links. You guys just say things are facts and can never come up with anything. Idiots saying they contribute billions of dollars. You can't really be that stupid.

I do love the personal attacks though when you can't come up with any facts.

Or you guys just run off to some other thread.

NYRA IS A JOKE.

Cannon Shell · #42 10-31-2006, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revolution

No genius, property tax=10 million, which they don't even have and need to borrow. READ THE ARTICLE. Takeout from handle is the pari-mutuel tax which brings in half of what it once did and that is also around $10 million. THAT IS IT. So you have $20 million, where are the billions? LOL.

And I guess if NYRA wasn't running this, there would be no property tax and no pari-mutuel tax? LOL.

Do you really just make up things and have absolutely no clue. My FACTS, come from the government report on NYRA, where do yours come from?

I am a senior in college and I think you are the one who might need to take the GED.

FACTS. STICK TO THEM.

The State cut taxes to help the racing industry. As a result of those changes and increased out-of-state betting on NYRA races via simulcast, NYRA’s gross handle increased from $2.8 billion in 1997 to $3.5 billion in 2001, an increase of almost 25 percent. Meanwhile, State pari-mutuel tax revenues fell almost in half, from $18.6 million in 1997 to $9.9 million in 2001.

$3.5 billion in handle and a whopping 9.9 million went to the state.

Not to get off the subject but are you actually rooting for the state to get more money? Just wait until you graduate from college (ITT Tech?) and get out into the real world and see what the state will do for you.

Cannon Shell · #43 10-31-2006, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revolution

Here it is

NYRA generates $31 million annually in taxes for state and local governments.

That is it. $31 million. Please. That is an absolute joke. $3.5 BILLION bet and the give less than 1% of it to the government.

http://albany.bizjournals.com/albany...3/daily27.html

Well genius roughly 80% of that $3.5 billion goes back to the people who provided it. You know they are just accepting the wagers, they are not booking them and keeping all the losing bets.

ELA · #44 10-31-2006, 09:56 PM

I think this situation has many complexities and nuances that most of us are completely unaware of. First, let me say that I am not a banner waving member of the NYRA fan club. I do think and want them to retain the franchise -- but under certain conditions; more on that later. Second, I do think NYRA has done some terrible things, mostly in the past. When they tapped into the NYTHA/horsemen's accounts -- that was unacceptable and unjustifiable. It was downright wrong. No excuses. NYRA also has never offered "transparency" in several areas and were not cooperative in any way, shape or form when it came to negotiating with the NYTHA regarding the VLT revenue split deal. They refused to work with and negotiate with the NYTHA. Of course there is more, but that's history.

Now, let me clarify something about this nonprofit topic -- nonprofit is a tax status it is not a management style. In addition, there is no blanket law or section of the tax code that states a nonprofit doesn't get to "keep" money. There are many types of nonprofits. You cannot compare NYRA to a hospital, school system, an endowment or an operating foundation. They are entities of a totally different nature and breed (no pun intended).

As far as NYRA retaining the franchise, personally, I think it is best for bettors, owners, trainers, and racing in general. However, I think they need to change their mindset. They need to be more cooperative and open. They need to get rid of the arrogance and isolationism. They need to be more of a team player. Plus, they need a new business model. If VLT's weren't coming to NY -- nobody, absolutely nobody would be bidding on the franchise. Tax rates and certain mandated and legislated fees must be changed. Other fees and charges that must be paid to the state must be changed. It was more feasible and viable to pay these dollars out in pre-OTB days as well as pre-simulcasting days. The simulcasting model is also not in line vis a vis internet betting, telephone wagering, etc.

VLT's are not the answer. However, what is is the "alternative revenue" model. Look at where Keeneland gets major dollars from -- not VLT's, but from revenue that is generated from the sales company. That subsidy, for lack of a better word, is thrown back into the racing side of the game -- purses, facility, backstretch, etc. The Woodbine model, economically works. A quasi-partnership between the racing industry, the VLT partner, and the provincial government.

The other bidders for the franchise are taking a totally different approach. There is nothing wrong with that and that doesn't make it wrong. However, there is no history there. The other bidders are the upstarts -- yes, with allegedly plenty of money -- and are looking to make this their "first" time. That's an important aspect to remember.

I don't think it's exactly applicable -- however, let's remember that the devil you know is far less dangerous than the devil you don't know.

Eric

Revolution · #45 10-31-2006, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Not to get off the subject but are you actually rooting for the state to get more money? Just wait until you graduate from college (ITT Tech?) and get out into the real world and see what the state will do for you.

I am a senior at St. John's and I am going to post-bac next year and apply to medical school. I am not rooting for more money for the government, if NYRA isn't contributing to taxes in NY, that means I have to contribute more. You can't reallly be this stupid. It is impossible.

Cannon Shell · #46 10-31-2006, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revolution

if NYRA isn't contributing to taxes in NY, that means I have to contribute more.

So you believe that your personal taxes will go up if NYRA does not contribute theirs? And you call me stupid?
NYRA should use your statement as it's #1 bargining chip with the ad hoc committee. "Hey we must be important if our tax paying existence is affecting individual citizens at a personal income tax level."

Cannon Shell · #47 10-31-2006, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revolution

I am a senior at St. John's

Lower admission standards and the basketball team still stinks???

hoovesupsideyourhead · #48 10-31-2006, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revolution

Those are facts. I provide links. You guys just say things are facts and can never come up with anything. Idiots saying they contribute billions of dollars. You can't really be that stupid.

I do love the personal attacks though when you can't come up with any facts.

Or you guys just run off to some other thread.

NYRA IS A JOKE.

put the bong down...lol...nyra rules it brings us the best meet on earth saratoga....you sound like you may be working as a page for a congressman...taxation without representation..hmmm

SniperSB23 · #49 10-31-2006, 10:39 PM

I was only a statistics and economics major so maybe I missed something in an upper level math course but how exactly is an organization that is generating $31 million a year for the state and needs to borrow $19 million causing me to pay more taxes?

Cannon Shell · #50 10-31-2006, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I was only a statistics and economics major so maybe I missed something in an upper level math course but how exactly is an organization that is generating $31 million a year for the state and needs to borrow $19 million causing me to pay more taxes?

Maybe if you went to St. Johns you'd get it.

blackthroatedwind · #51 10-31-2006, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Maybe if you went to St. Johns you'd get it.

I think Richard Bomze teaches that course.

ELA · #52 11-01-2006, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revolution

Here it is

NYRA generates $31 million annually in taxes for state and local governments.

That is it. $31 million. Please. That is an absolute joke. $3.5 BILLION bet and the give less than 1% of it to the government.

http://albany.bizjournals.com/albany...3/daily27.html

I am certainly not an expert in this arena, however, I think this is just one component. That figure might not include other fees and revenues generated by NYRA, paid to the state, etc.

But again, I think we need to look at this more globally. Of course many people bash the NY bred program, yet I think they do this in a very myopic way. In order to see the entire picture of the economic impact -- not only of the NY bred program, but from the NYRA perspective as well -- you would have to have to look at the global landscape. Be that as it may, again, I think we are missing the point. I posted about this on another thread, so I am going to cut/paste here.

I do not think we can automatically collapse the present situation with pointing exclusive blame at NYRA.

Regardless, everything we see today is not due to NYRA, corruption, management, etc. Today and the present situation is an accumulation of numerous aspects -- not only of NYRA, management, etc. -- but of the industry in general.

The business model in NY, as well as NY racing as a business and as a sport, has been broken for years. That is a reality. We didn't see any bidders wanting the franchise until the VLT legislation got passed. Nobody expressed interest until the actual VLT deal was made. There was no Empire or Excellsior. There is absolutely nobody who would be the slightest bit interested in the franchise if it wasn't for the VLT's (now, this might be if the land was up for grabs or perhaps OTB).

Now, in my opinion, this is reflective of a bigger issue. What everyone sees here is an alternative business model -- that is -- alternative revenue source(s) being available to fund the racing business. Keeneland gets a tremendous amount of money, revenue, directly from the sales company. Alternative revenue sources are very often ancillary, then becoming a primary solution to a present problem -- a problem where a business model is broken. Now that doesn't mean that VLT's are the solution to the racing industry because we know it is not. Yet VLT money will find its way into purse accounts. We also know the trickle-down, trickle-over, etc. effect will not happen.

But there is still a problem. More than one actually. What will still hurt is that the tax rate (for the VLT dollars) in NY is extremely high.

I mentioned it before, but look at Woodbine. Another case of alternative revenue source(s). What does their business model look like? A partnership between the government and the track. This has worked and is successful. It has had a very positive impact on purses. What has it done for pure racetrack attendance, handle, etc.? This is the dangerous aspect. Look at Finger Lakes -- management decides to invest $4m or so into the VLT side of the facility and goes against getting a turf course.

This was a ROI/ROR decision. Will this be Empire's mindset? What about Excellsior? Isn't this a for-profit mentality? Shareholders first. ROR/ROI first. Simply put, this situation is not simple at all.

Eric