Pinnacle Gives Up.....

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Scav

You can get rid of property and money, you just don't toss away 60% of your business, IN AN INSTANT

I would agree..somethings' going on behind the scenes

[skippy3481]

Scav i agree but what if a majority of your money was tied to the US in some way. Lets just for simplicity sake, say they are worth 500 million. If 400 of that is tied up in U.S investments, how does one not kill off 65% of its business. THey should still have enough sustainable income to drive its enterprise until this stubborn country finally changes the laws.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by skippy3481

Scav i agree but what if a majority of your money was tied to the US in some way. Lets just for simplicity sake, say they are worth 500 million. If 400 of that is tied up in U.S investments, how does one not kill off 65% of its business. THey should still have enough sustainable income to drive its enterprise until this stubborn country finally changes the laws.

Pinny has the sharpest people in the industry, NONE of them would be heavily involved in the US, none

[Scav]

We can all have Magic Idol set up bank accounts for us and use his address so we can play on Pinnacle

[skippy3481]

IF they are sharp why are they shut down, while many other books are still going. Why give up all this business. It makes absolute zero sense, unless the DOJ put massive pressure on them to shut down over night.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by skippy3481

Can anyone recommend a solid sportsbook. Perhaps dunbar, i'd be happy to reference you. I'm not a huge bettor but i push through a decent amount of action every week.

skippy, CRIS processed a 4-fig withdrawal for me within minutes today. They are as solid as any sportsbook, and have been a consensus Top 3 for years. I would much rather have a 5K balance at CRIS right now than at Pinnacle, I'll tell you that. (it's been 11 hours since my withdrawal at Pinnacle, and still no word, nor an answer to the email I sent 5 hours ago.)

However, as I wrote earlier, I would wait until at least a few weeks after the Superbowl before depositing to make sure that ANY book is still healthy.

If you are determined to keep some money in a sportsbook in the short term, World Sports Exchange (wsex.com) is another good choice. They responded to the Pinny announcement with an offer of a 20% bonus on account-transfers (from Pinnacle), with a 5x rollover requirement for the bonus. (Max transfer that qualifies for a bonus is 10K) I believe the offer is only good until tomorrow. They pay full track odds but offer no rebate or payoff bonus. And their futures generally suck. (But a 20% bonus with 5x rollover is very much like a 4% rebate until you've earned the bonus.)

I see at Sportsbook Review that TheGreek and BetJamaica (which is run by TheGreek) are also accepting balance transfers from Pinnacle. This is what I would do if I hadn't already put in a Neteller withdrawal request at Pinnacle. TheGreek isn't as good as CRIS or 5Dimes for betting on daily races, but they are good for futures and matchups on big races. And they are at the level of CRIS for security.

In the longterm, Pinnacle's departure should be good news to other sportsbooks, making them healthier.

btw, I agree with you that there is something very weird about this Pinnacle development.

--Dunbar

[skippy3481]

Thank you dunbar. I withdrew a healthy balance from pinny, but i wanted a couple hundred bucks action this week. If i the company folds so be it. Not that big of a deal. But i have to have something on the colts when they win.

The pinny situation really intrigues me. All the US can do is arrest them if they enter the US or into a country that has an extradition treaty with us. They can also freeze and seize all assets currently held in the US. But to make them give up over half their business over night.... somebody has something big on someone there.

[Thunder Gulch]

Thought Pinny would weather the storm, but now I really have my doubts about any offshore books.

[Rupert Pupkin]

I think there are some Americans that own a piece of Pinnacle. I think that these guys would be in jeopardy of being in big trouble if Pinny continues to take bets from America. My guess is that these guys probably made a deal with our government to stop taking bets from America in exchange for not being prosecuted.

Any books that are owned by Americans will have to stop taking bets from America unless the owners don't plan on living here ever again.

Any books that are publicly traded companies are not going to take bets from America. If a company is publicly traded(such as Party Poker), they need to be squeaky clean. They can't be taking bets from America if it is against the law in America.

The good news is that I think that as long as a book is not owned by Americans and as long as a book is not publicly traded, I think the book will probably continue to take bets from America.

I think even a few books that are owned by Amercians will continue to take bets as long as the owners never plan on coming back here. I think that is the case with a few of the books. If I'm not mistaken, I think one of the owners of Bodog can never return here. In that case, he has no reason to obey the new law. There is nothing they can do to him as long as he never comes back here.

[Thoroughbred Fan]

Do any of these alternatives mentioned take less than $1 bets?

That is my main gripe wth Bodog. Sometimes for shits and giggles, I'll bet bad tracks on a week night through winticket. Primary bet dime supers. I have done alright doing this and even when I don't the losses are minimal. Bodog does have exotic rebates, but no bet less than a full dollar.

[tanner12oz]

the guy from bodog's name is calvin and supposedly the u.s. and him have a serious feud goin on

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I think there are some Americans that own a piece of Pinnacle. I think that these guys would be in jeopardy of being in big trouble if Pinny continues to take bets from America. My guess is that these guys probably made a deal with our government to stop taking bets from America in exchange for not being prosecuted.

Any books that are owned by Americans will have to stop taking bets from America unless the owners don't plan on living here ever again.

Any books that are publicly traded companies are not going to take bets from America. If a company is publicly traded(such as Party Poker), they need to be squeaky clean. They can't be taking bets from America if it is against the law in America.

The good news is that I think that as long as a book is not owned by Americans and as long as a book is not publicly traded, I think the book will probably continue to take bets from America.

I think even a few books that are owned by Amercians will continue to take bets as long as the owners never plan on coming back here. I think that is the case with a few of the books. If I'm not mistaken, I think one of the owners of Bodog can never return here. In that case, he has no reason to obey the new law. There is nothing they can do to him as long as he never comes back here.

One book that is owned by Americans is World Sports Exchange (wsex.com)

Jay Cohen is one of the 3 guys who started up World Sports Exchange, which is located in Antigua. Cohen purposely came back to the US a few years ago to challenge his indictment and the law itself. He lost in court and served 18 mos in prison plus 2 years probation, which finally ended in 2006. I really admire the guy's guts and principles. It would have been easy to stay in Antigua, drinking pina coladas in a million dollar house. While Cohen served his jail term, his 2 partners continued to run the biz in Antigua. They have clearly decided that the US action in Internationally illegal, and would never stop operating because of US pressure.

wsex once double paid me on a $1000 bet. I didn't hesitate for a second (well not for a minute, anyway) about telling them, even though several days had already passed before I realized the error.

http://www.freejaycohen.com/

I agree with Rupert that there is little chance of books like wsex.com ever capitulating. There is also very little chance that books like wsex, TheGreek, and CRIS will go broke.

--Dunbar

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

One book that is owned by Americans is World Sports Exchange (wsex.com)

Jay Cohen is one of the 3 guys who started up World Sports Exchange, which is located in Antigua. Cohen purposely came back to the US a few years ago to challenge his indictment and the law itself. He lost in court and served 18 mos in prison plus 2 years probation, which finally ended in 2006. I really admire the guy's guts and principles. It would have been easy to stay in Antigua, drinking pina coladas in a million dollar house. While Cohen served his jail term, his 2 partners continued to run the biz in Antigua. They have clearly decided that the US action in Internationally illegal, and would never stop operating because of US pressure.

wsex once double paid me on a $1000 bet. I didn't hesitate for a second (well not for a minute, anyway) about telling them, even though several days had already passed before I realized the error.

http://www.freejaycohen.com/

I agree with Rupert that there is little chance of books like wsex.com ever capitulating. There is also very little chance that books like wsex, TheGreek, and CRIS will go broke.

--Dunbar

Is it not also a big problem if the U.S. banks of American customers can no longer (either by law or pressure) process the money transactions?

I read some comments from yesterday attributed to a Pinnacle person that this was a pretty big factor in their decision.

I'd assume (if this is true) that other sportsbooks would encounter the same kind of issues.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Is it not also a big problem if the U.S. banks of American customers can no longer (either by law or pressure) process the money transactions?

I read some comments from yesterday attributed to a Pinnacle person that this was a pretty big factor in their decision.

I'd assume (if this is true) that other sportsbooks would encounter the same kind of issues.

Yes, that's a problem. But I doubt if that was key to the Pinnacle decision. It doesn't explain why Pinnacle would choose to bail just before the biggest betting month of the year. Why not reap the Superbowl bonanza, and then close off the Americans in March? A future banking problem does not explain the timing of this move.

--Dunbar

[estreetposse]

why are people acting like Churchill Downs / the Kentucky Derby has been shut down or canceled ? Pinny, from what i heard was a great book.... ok.

But some people here are acting like this the end of the world. That's the risk you take when you put ANY money in an off-shore account (they can close shop or go belly-up at any time with no heads up), i guess some people thought pinny was above that?

Unless offshore racing or betting is your main source of income i think a lot of people are overreacting, there was a lot of great books out there before pinny, and there are still a lot of great books left out there with the demise of pinny. Obviously it’s about the comfrot level, and that's understandable but people are acting like offshore wagering is gonna be shut down all together in a matter of days, it's not.

just my two cents
* i have used betcris and i think its a solid book

-bt-

[skippy3481]

The banking sucks, but alot of books have already gotten around it. Firepay closed its doors to U.S. Customers but neteller has never had a problem. Also, A bank outside of the country can wire money to the book and then you can bet in the U.S. If your willing to wait, money orders work well too. Pinny has to have some deep american involvement or they would still be open.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by skippy3481

The banking sucks, but alot of books have already gotten around it. Firepay closed its doors to U.S. Customers but neteller has never had a problem. Also, A bank outside of the country can wire money to the book and then you can bet in the U.S. If your willing to wait, money orders work well too. Pinny has to have some deep american involvement or they would still be open.

I beleive Neteller has committed to compliance, but is in no rush to begin complying. If Neteller does follow through on that, I think, as you do, that there will be alternatives that work. In the longrun, I think the efforts to stop offshore betting have just about as much chance of success as Prohibition had in stopping drinking.

--Dunbar

[tanner12oz]

the money order suggestion might be a way around for pinnacle but its currently not a way around for us.......u.s. ip's are being identified and the max bet for us is .01 cents and pinny's minimum bet is $1.

[Dunbar]

Pinnacle processed my Neteller request last night.

--Dunbar

[GPK]

checked my account balance last night...wonder if they will send me a check for $2.35

Although I do have a future wager @ 7-1 that Tiger wins the Masters and the US Open this year....