Next Big Stallion? What is your opinion?

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

I'll say it once...ORIENTATE. His foals can RUN! I have seen so many that I like. I know that he was mostly a sprinter on dirt, but he also won stakes on the turf at a mile. I really like this horse. He was also sound upon retiring and he is a very classy looking animal.

I think Afleet Alex will become a very, very good sire also.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by pgardn

This is interesting, but it kind of makes me sick. I watch racing to see athletes run.

A sample of my nausea, a direct quote from Bloodhorse, Throroughbred Champions of the 20th century:

Easy Goer died at the age of eight after having sired JUST 136 foals in four years. The son of Alydar didn't have enough time to PROVE HIS WORTH...

Alrighty then. WTF is this supposed to mean?

Pgardn, if you like Easy Goer (as I did), you may like this guy...

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/isd...ion_no=1422500

[sumitas]

i believe Desert Warrior in NY has the pedigree to have a chance to make some waves.

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

In the first few years a stallion is at stud, breeders often have no idea about which type of mares will go best with him. Early in his stud career, Damascus was expected to sire stamina, so he was given speedy mares but it turned out that Big D sired his dam's speed and needed staying mares to sire anything more than sprinters. With his early death, Easy Goer didn't get a chance to get the adjustment to his matings that would have given him the best shot as a stallion.

You prove your racing worth on the track.
The money worth... is worthless.
Stating Easy Goer did not have a chance to prove his worth is a little statement Bloodhorse should suck back up like a hanging snot rocket.

Let em run.

[sumitas]

i'd like to see Pink Duck get a shot.

What about Barbaro? He won on turf and dirt and at different distances. Afleet Alex also comes to mind. I also think Golden Missle could be a good stallion. And you also have Awesome Again. I think there are several good ones.

Originally Posted by sumitas

i'd like to see Pink Duck get a shot.

He's a gelding........

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

I absolutely loved this horse...might be the best looking horse I have ever seen....couldn't take my eyes off of him...but, sons of Kris S. haven't been very good sires and a lot of bloodstock agents believe that Rock Hard Ten will suffer because of his paternal side.....I'm very anxious to see how he turns out...his foals should have a lot of size, at least...I actually considered him for my best mare before going to Vindication..

I haven't been into pedigree/breeding since the late 80's (last time I owned any race horses). If they bring some decent mares to him he's got a chance. I think that is where they make it. You can't have him cover mares that have little chance to produce good winners.

Originally Posted by pgardn

You prove your racing worth on the track.
The money worth... is worthless.
Stating Easy Goer did not have a chance to prove his worth is a little statement Bloodhorse should suck back up like a hanging snot rocket.

Let em run.

Skip Away won alot of races and alot of money ON THE TRACK. As a stud, Skip Away is a BIG DUD.

[sumitas]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

He's a gelding........

are we sure ? he was listed as a horse just last year...that would be a bummer if he was gelded with his rare Spy Song top line.

until 7/4/04 his pp shows he's a horse/colt. he's 8 now. why would they geld him so late in his career when he's a stallion prospect ?

Originally Posted by sumitas

are we sure ? he was listed as a horse just last year...that would be a bummer if he was gelded with his rare Spy Song top line.

until 7/4/04 his pp shows he's a horse/colt. he's 8 now. why would they geld him so late in his career when he's a stallion prospect ?

He is listed as a horse, but knowing Bunkie I wouldn't be surprised if he just never reported it....I have a few La-breds that were gelded in past years that were listed as full horses for a long time....Pink Duck is a cool horse but he has the pedigree of a donkey...I know you're being sarcastic about breeding to him because he is just a hard-knocking, blue-collar La-bred...as a matter of fact, if you want to stand him then I'm sure you can claim him the next time he runs for $10K claimers...

[sumitas]

no donkey. 97 brisnet top speed fig. winner on turf and dirt. Spy Song tail male. Only Alladin Rib has that in Ohio. The Spy Song line SHOULD be a great tail male line. He's prominent in many, Storm Cat, Mt Livermore, Peaks and Valleys, etc. The Beter Man Can.

He deserves a shot. What stamina his tail mail line has up to Crimson Satan ! Wow.

i think he'd be perfect for failed Storm Cat mares.

and it looks like Mr Brilliant has retired down in La. so the Spy Song line needs Pink Duck. He has a very rare top line and is the only racing stallion prospect in the world that has it, right now.

Originally Posted by sumitas

no donkey. 97 brisnet top speed fig. winner on turf and dirt. Spy Song tail male. Only Alladin Rib has that in Ohio. The Spy Song line SHOULD be a great tail male line. He's prominent in many, Storm Cat, Mt Livermore, Peaks and Valleys, etc. The Beter Man Can.

He deserves a shot. What stamina his tail mail line has up to Crimson Satan ! Wow.

i think he'd be perfect for failed Storm Cat mares.

and it looks like Mr Brilliant has retired down in La. so the Spy Song line needs Pink Duck. He has a very rare top line and is the only racing stallion prospect in the world that has it, right now.

I guarantee that you could buy him for $10K.......he's gotten really cheap the last year or so...

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Playa,

I can only go by what I've seen. He was ducked like nobody else. He ran for Howard who is as clean as it gets. He was never asked in any of his races. Like I said all I do is watch races. He is the single best horse I've seen since I started watching. And say what you will about sheet numbers, they mean something and based on them only Ghostzapper has ever run faster (in history, not just the last 20 years) and that was 1 time. I know what I saw. I don't look to convince anyone else.

well how long youve been watching for randy? he was ducked huh? maybe by medags but whyd his connections duck the BCC? LOL probaly becuase they knew hed have problems beating a full field. a very nice horse nontheless but unproven if you ask me becuz they didnt run the horse on BC day. there have been alotta other horses the last 10 years since ive been watching that have proven more. you can run the greatest numbers all day long randy but winning races against the best comp is what proves the most. bellamy road ran 1 eye popping race but against who? lol a bunch of G3 horses@best! see my point

[randallscott35]

No I don't see your point and frankly I don't like your tone either. I think my opinion is as informed as any on here. Let's say I've watched most every major race for the past 15 years. So I'll leave the 80's to others but I've also seen many of the major figures from races during that time period as well, and I'm aware of their numbers vs. runners of the past few years.

Apparently you forget that he had an injury in September while training for the Breeders Cup. At least he beat older, did it on both turf and dirt and had a something like a 8 race 4yr old campaign if I remember correctly.

Have I ever said Bellamy Road was anything than a 1 race horse? Mineshaft followed that number up with 3 more negative numbers in the low to mid negatives. He was hardly a one race wonder. But again, I'm not here to convince you. There are people who've been around a hell of a lot longer than me who think he is right there as well.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

I'll say it once...ORIENTATE. His foals can RUN! I have seen so many that I like. I know that he was mostly a sprinter on dirt, but he also won stakes on the turf at a mile. I really like this horse. He was also sound upon retiring and he is a very classy looking animal.

I think Afleet Alex will become a very, very good sire also.

I agree with Jessica about Orientate. From what I have seen at the 2 year old sales this year, Orientate's offspring look great. I think he will be the hot new sire.

Why dont we just carry out little breeding experiments, see how nice they look as two year olds, and never let them on the track. The industry could make it like a dog show. We could parade them around and wager on who the judges think look the nicest. Just make racing totally into breeding and conformation. That sounds fun.

Let em run for Christ sakes.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Why dont we just carry out little breeding experiments, see how nice they look as two year olds, and never let them on the track. The industry could make it like a dog show. We could parade them around and wager on who the judges think look the nicest. Just make racing totally into breeding and conformation. That sounds fun.

Let em run for Christ sakes.

How they look conformation wise has a HUGE affect on how they run. I won't buy any horse that doesn't have a sloping shoulder, large nostrils and straight legs.

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

How they look conformation wise has a HUGE affect on how they run. I won't buy any horse that doesn't have a sloping shoulder, large nostrils and straight legs.

That would be because you have linked those traits to how they run?

I would be inclined to always watch a horse RUN, before purchase. But because I dont purchase, I dont have the authority to say. But come on Gator, you are taking more of a risk buying a yearling that has never taken a good run with a jock aboard, compared to a two year old showing his stuff.

But its not a risk if you are buying a horse for a dog show.

Nostrils? I would be inclined to like horses with large nostrils unless it is linked to some other trait that is a defect. Horses breath through their nostrils. I will never forget a picture I saw of Candy Ride upon beating Megs, his Nostrils were huge.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by pgardn

That would be because you have linked those traits to how they run?

I would be inclined to always watch a horse RUN, before purchase. But because I dont purchase, I dont have the authority to say. But come on Gator, you are taking more of a risk buying a yearling that has never taken a good run with a jock aboard, compared to a two year old showing his stuff.

But its not a risk if you are buying a horse for a dog show.

Nostrils? I would be inclined to like horses with large nostrils unless it is linked to some other trait that is a defect. Horses breath through their nostrils. I will never forget a picture I saw of Candy Ride upon betting Megs, his Nostrils were huge.

Yes, you obviously take a HUGE risk in buying a yearling over a two year old in training. The advantage is that (if you know what you're looking at), you can sometimes get a horse for a lot cheaper than if you bought them as two year olds. Another advantage in yearling purchases for me is that you know that since they haven't been run, you break them and train them however you like. Horses have memories similar to elephants... they remember EVERYTHING and if they are broken the wrong way or started wrong, they don't run as well in the long run. Obviously, you're correct that you can't determine the run and heart of a yearling, but technically, you can't really see that until a horse runs in a race anyway.