CRIST: Sets the NY facts straight

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

So were Magic Johnson and Larry Bird.

Uh last time I looked they wore the uniforms of their "teams" not of thier own, no?

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by TheSpyder

Good read Steve,

It makes you wonder what the state of racing will be in 20 years. The slots are a short term money generating out that has nothing to do with racing.

As I write this I'm reminded (don't know why) of a promotion by a grocery store in Cleveland circa 1960's. When you shopped there you got a racing ticket and there was a show every week of 6 horse races, I'm sure it was taped and can't remember where it was from.

Spyder

When my parents moved to Atlanta in the late 1970s, they had the same promotion going at their local supermarket, probably the exact same races, since they took place at Tropical Park, which was torn down in 1971 or 72.

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

So were Magic Johnson and Larry Bird.

My mistake.

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

When my parents moved to Atlanta in the late 1970s, they had the same promotion going at their local supermarket, probably the exact same races, since they took place at Tropical Park, which was torn down in 1971 or 72.

Edabee!!



Great seeing you posting again,ma'am.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Horseman organizations have long opposed takeout reductions...which is absolutely essential.....and the draconian takeout is really the main reason why betting on horses is considered a suckers game by so many....and so tremendously few professional horseplayers exist.

I think if horseman really want to see what you say happen...they ought not be there to oppose takeout reductions...in fact, they should lobby for them.

From an economical standpoint---I think takeout reductions will help everyone.

I agree with you on these points and you have to understand that much of the time the horsemans organizations are run not by the will of the horsemen but by the decree of those elected. I'm sure that a large majority of NY horsemen are hoping NYRA wins the NY deal despite the backing of Empire by their leaders. Plus a lot of horsemen are really dumb.

[estreetposse]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Plus as great as some riders are their skills are not readily apparent like an athlete in another sport. What makes the top jockeys that, is a great sense of timing, patience, and hands. All of which are hard to quantify or identify.

The truth is that promoting jockeys or trainers or any other persons wont work, because even novices understand that the horses talent is what is important and readily apparent.

I have to say sitting out back in Saratoga you get to see & hear where the $$ goes in a race. It's was and always is, "What # is Bailey on?"...Which is the Pletcher horse?"...Johnny V. & Pletcher; can't touch'em."...Another Paraneck & Pedersen...just kidding!!!
Yes, they have many of the best horses and we love to beat them, but Joe Public knows and recognizes names and faces and will continue bet them more and more. Which name do you know? Pletcher or Parisella? Bailey or Arroyo?
Everything is marketable, finding out how to market it is the difficult part.
Lots love the horse, but it can't run by itself...it needs a team behind it and that team is manmade. Maybe marketed together as a team would be a place to start.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Plus a lot of horsemen are really dumb.

I know this first hand.

Both of my parents trained race horses at one time.....

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by estreetposse

I have to say sitting out back in Saratoga you get to see & hear where the $$ goes in a race. It's was and always is, "What # is Bailey on?"...Which is the Pletcher horse?"...Johnny V. & Pletcher; can't touch'em."...Another Paraneck & Pedersen...just kidding!!!
Yes, they have many of the best horses and we love to beat them, but Joe Public knows and recognizes names and faces and will continue bet them more and more. Which name do you know? Pletcher or Parisella? Bailey or Arroyo?
Everything is marketable, finding out how to market it is the difficult part.
Lots love the horse, but it can't run by itself...it needs a team behind it and that team is manmade. Maybe marketed together as a team would be a place to start.

Those people you hear are already there. The public will not come to watch Todd Pletcher train or John Velasquez ride. They come to bet horses and if they dont bet then they really are not going to be worth very much to the game in the long run anyway. I have stressed this in many posts before. Market the sport as a betting vechicle not as a sport. Trainers and owners and jockeys are not marketable in any meaningful manner. Horses careers are fleeting. The fact that you can walk into a track and figure out how to make 6 or 7 figure scores are what will bring people and keep them coming back.

[estreetposse]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Those people you hear are already there. The public will not come to watch Todd Pletcher train or John Velasquez ride. They come to bet horses and if they dont bet then they really are not going to be worth very much to the game in the long run anyway. I have stressed this in many posts before. Market the sport as a betting vechicle not as a sport. Trainers and owners and jockeys are not marketable in any meaningful manner. Horses careers are fleeting. The fact that you can walk into a track and figure out how to make 6 or 7 figure scores are what will bring people and keep them coming back.

I agree on this but I still think you need to have the characters to throw it in the faces of people. If you knew nothing of Hooters, would you rather go to see what it's about with an owl on the billboard or a hot blonde with her %^%&%$ popping out...get what I'm saying? The characters would include the horses, jocks, trainers.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Those people you hear are already there. The public will not come to watch Todd Pletcher train or John Velasquez ride. They come to bet horses and if they dont bet then they really are not going to be worth very much to the game in the long run anyway. I have stressed this in many posts before. Market the sport as a betting vechicle not as a sport. Trainers and owners and jockeys are not marketable in any meaningful manner. Horses careers are fleeting. The fact that you can walk into a track and figure out how to make 6 or 7 figure scores are what will bring people and keep them coming back.

Yes, but the fact that the Pick Six is a $2 minimum prevents a lot of people like myself from being able to take a reasonable shot at that 6 or 7 figure score. As long as that is the case it will make it a lot more difficult to promote the game to new gamblers on the basis of the big score. You really need to get comfortable making other bets and already be hooked on the game before you can venture into the Pick Six pool.

[TheSpyder]

The bottom line is getting more people interested in horse racing, more people coming to the races, and more people betting on the races.

This is all about marketing as well as making the product better, period.

If you can't get the people to the races, we need to bring the races to the people. Andy had a great idea about making the pick six available where you buy lottery tickets. Great idea. Why not add the suspence of watching an afternoon of races instead of those stupid ping pong balls.

Another idea as I mentioned earlier is the old grocery store show that gave you a ticket to watch races for prizes in a 30 minute weekly show.

With so many choices for entertainment and sensory overload at every turn, you have to go to the public an somehow make more of their daily life. I wish someone in racing would support a one page horse racing news update in US Today or something like that.

I know living in England horse racing's prominance in daily life is substantial.

I don't think it's an internal solution, it's putting it in the face of Joe public and selling him on the upside what ever that should, could be.

[2MinsToPost]

GREAT READ, this thread. Just this humble novices thoughts.....

- The locals that I know well here, well they have a bad opinion of New York Racing. Why? Well, if ya listen to them they tell you that "Them New Yorker's are all crooks". Now, how can NYRA try to get these stubborn heads to see the light?

- If you manage a "Racino" properly, I don't see why it won't work. With skilled people in their proper positions of power and a CLEAR seperation of the casino atmosphere and the track atmosphere. I feel that is CRITICAL, cause I don't go the track to hear all those machines.

- Advertising the jockeys? Most can't put together a complete sentence (no offense) and they all look the same (again, no offense). The horses, on the other hand.

- Truth be told, at least in Ohio, gambling is eveil in many folks eyes but yet their is a bingo parlor on every street corner. Horse racing is a very pure form of entertainment where one can take a date. He can take his lady friend to the track, buy her a half decent meal and some drinks, and maybe even end the night with more money then he started with.

- My last thought. Folks in postions of power in the industry are doing very little to advertise their product to potential new customers. Sure, slots will draw all kinds, but............................................... ..............if the management does not draw the clear line between THE HORSE RACING EXPERIENCE and the CASINO EXPERIENCE then it is a failure in the making

[Linny]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Those people you hear are already there. The public will not come to watch Todd Pletcher train or John Velasquez ride. They come to bet horses and if they dont bet then they really are not going to be worth very much to the game in the long run anyway. I have stressed this in many posts before. Market the sport as a betting vechicle not as a sport. Trainers and owners and jockeys are not marketable in any meaningful manner. Horses careers are fleeting. The fact that you can walk into a track and figure out how to make 6 or 7 figure scores are what will bring people and keep them coming back.

The fact is that if they treated racing like a lottery, promote the P6 for the $2 bettor. Like the "dollar and a dream" theme in lottery. Instead of "mystery bet" vouchers with admission, why noy a $2 quick pick on the P4 or P6? Get them watching and cheering for 4 or 6 consecutive races. It's a betting game and honestly the odds are better than lotto or such. Plus, all the novice money in the pools is good for experienced bettors.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Linny

The fact is that if they treated racing like a lottery, promote the P6 for the $2 bettor. Like the "dollar and a dream" theme in lottery. Instead of "mystery bet" vouchers with admission, why noy a $2 quick pick on the P4 or P6? Get them watching and cheering for 4 or 6 consecutive races. It's a betting game and honestly the odds are better than lotto or such. Plus, all the novice money in the pools is good for experienced bettors.

Definitely. Can they market it by pointing out what the takeout is in a Pick Six pool as opposed to the lottery? I could see that causing them to butt heads with the lottery but really if they could point out that a higher percentage of the Pick Six pool goes back to the bettors than the lottery does it would encourage players to play quick Pick 6s instead. I suppose the only problem would be for the normal horseplayers if in what would normally be an obvious carryover situation someone scooped the pot on a quick pick.

[Downthestretch55]

Great article. Thanks for putting it up.

Just my two pennies...I don't think slots are the answer.

And HHH, Grand Union is still around...I went grocery shopping there yesterday.

[estreetposse]

I guess we should get back to the fact we don't need a F@$#%& Circus at the racetrack whether it's Saratoga or Aqueduct and that's what Wynn is throwing out there. Listening to most people out there, NYRA seems to be the way to go. Now as I posted elsewhere, isn't there somone out there with connections to the committee or other friends in high places that can show them these forums, this one or any other ones for that matter, that show what a reasonable amount of people think about the situation of racing in NY

[philcski]

My sixpack of ideas to help NY racing (although some of the principles would apply everywhere):

1. Reduce takeout across the board by 2%. This would cost the state approximately $35-40MM a year in takeout off the top, but the expectation of that money going back through the windows 5X as most studies have proven would actually end up with a gain at the end of the day.

2. Offer new types of wagers that people would be interested in (and no... that doesn't mean the Grand Slam is something people are interested in.)
Here's two possibilities:
- The "Beat the Favorite" (low takeout): How often do you hear a novice (or even expert horseplayer) say, "I don't like the favorite in this race, but I don't have a good idea otherwise." This wager would allow the player to take a shot with the field or on the post time favorite, in an easy to bet fashion.
- The "Super Six" (high takeout): One race a day, with a minimum of 12 betting interests (note that this allows for 665,280 possible combinations), requiring the player to select the top 6 finishers in a row. Allow people to bet it for a buck anywhere lottery tickets are sold as well as on- or off-track (wouldn't be difficult to add the lottery terminals into the totalisator system), as soon as entries are available, either in a quickpick or normal manner. If no tickets have all 6 correct, the pool carries over. The race would be replayed at the time they do the Lottery drawing. Imagine the mania the first time someone quickpicks at a grocery store and hits for a million bucks. If marketed correctly, this could grow into a phenomenon, easily a $1,000,000 daily handle bet.

3. Increase the Saratoga meet to 8 weeks. This is a no-brainer, everyone benefits. There isn't a better place in the world to go to the races... and "more is better" applies.

4. Decrease the winter meet to 3 or 4 days a week. More (healthy) horses in the fields = more competitive races = more handle.

5. WHEN the racino is completed, make sure the races are being played on TV's as well as live outside the windows so people KNOW they're at a racetrack and not some slot parlor. If 1 person a day decides to quit on the one-armed bandits and plays the horses instead, the idea is success. For a lesson in how NOT to run a racino, take a ride 75 miles south to Philadelphia Park, where the racing is a forgotten afterthought these days (not that it was great before, but I took my first trip there after the renovation 2 weeks ago and there isn't even an easy way to go to the paddock or the rail anymore. It's a complete joke.)

6. Make the off-track experience more enjoyable. It's no secret that the highest grossing NYCOTB's are the restaurant/bar parlors. Part of this would be a state mandate to require the takeover of the state's arcane and fraudulent OTB system, which for the out of staters is actually 5 different entities, and by the nature of the business is lost revenue for the track.

[theiman]

Originally Posted by estreetposse

I guess we should get back to the fact we don't need a F@$#%& Circus at the racetrack whether it's Saratoga or Aqueduct and that's what Wynn is throwing out there. Listening to most people out there, NYRA seems to be the way to go. Now as I posted elsewhere, isn't there somone out there with connections to the committee or other friends in high places that can show them these forums, this one or any other ones for that matter, that show what a reasonable amount of people think about the situation of racing in NY

Do you really want a failure of an organization to have its franchise agreement renewed for another 20 years?

Is the Big A in great shape because of the good work NYRA has done?

Does NYRA have any experience running a racino?

You need someone who has had experience at running both racetracks and racinos. You need someone in charge who has some people with eyes to the future, not padding their payrolls with cronies and turning their backs to internal corruption.

"NYRA--We Have Screwed Up--Give Us 20 More Years to get it Right!!!"

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by theiman

Do you really want a failure of an organization to have its franchise agreement renewed for another 20 years?

Is the Big A in great shape because of the good work NYRA has done?

Does NYRA have any experience running a racino?

You need someone who has had experience at running both racetracks and racinos. You need someone in charge who has some people with eyes to the future, not padding their payrolls with cronies and turning their backs to internal corruption.

"NYRA--We Have Screwed Up--Give Us 20 More Years to get it Right!!!"

And the "on track" racing product will "go out the window"...you can count on that! Why do all the NYRA haters think things will be so much better with someone else running the show? IT'S A RACETRACK...not a place for VLT'S, shops and any other type of amusement. It's about the horses and people who wager on them, the rest of the stuff can be for those who want only the gambling action.

[estreetposse]

Originally Posted by theiman

Do you really want a failure of an organization to have its franchise agreement renewed for another 20 years?

Is the Big A in great shape because of the good work NYRA has done?

Does NYRA have any experience running a racino?

You need someone who has had experience at running both racetracks and racinos. You need someone in charge who has some people with eyes to the future, not padding their payrolls with cronies and turning their backs to internal corruption.

"NYRA--We Have Screwed Up--Give Us 20 More Years to get it Right!!!"

Ahhh, let's have Frankie turn our beloved Saratoga into Gulfstream, great idea or have Stevie make the Jim Dandy into The Playboy Suite at the Palms.
This ain't South Beach, Laguna Beach or Vegas, this UPF*$%ING STATE NY...we don't need that sh*t here to have the best racing(besides inner crap)in the country. Awhile back it was Spitz and Bruno in the pockets of Excel. & Empire, and you're saying who is corrupt? Jerry Bailey is whoring himself out and making himself look like an ass doing it...helmet cams...didn't Vince McMahon make this sh*tup for the XFL? Tell you what, go play with Ahhhnold and his TWIN Danny Devito on your CushionTrack sandbox. READ THE ARTICLE AND READ THE THREAD, THEN MAKE AN EDUCATED STATEMENT!!!