Street Sense Not For Me....

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by estreetposse

Coming from Jersey, the armpit of America, nice.

If he is the best 3 year old in the world that is prepping for this race and he was and still is far superior to the field in the Bluegrass as it seems many think on here, then yes, I believe he should have won, Bottom line.

How about this guy, genius? Was he the best 3 year old?

http://www.secretariat.com/past_performance.htm

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by estreetposse

Coming from Jersey, the armpit of America, nice.

If he is the best 3 year old in the world that is prepping for this race and he was and still is far superior to the field in the Bluegrass as it seems many think on here, then yes, I believe he should have won, Bottom line.

Come Again??

[clydewine]

Originally Posted by moodwalker

Is there anyone else who is going to leave him off their tickets on Saturday?

I just don't see him doing much when it is time to do it.

Isn't the gamble whether Nafzger has him primed for this Saturday? I haven't seen anything from him this year that makes him stand out from any others.

A nose victory over an over-rated Pletcher horse who will run 10th in the Derby, and a nose defeat by a rapidly improving animal who was running in his first "big" race.

Is the consensus that he will just improve by 5-10 lengths just because he is back at Churchill where he won the Juvenile?

What has this horse done to separate himself this year? Work out at Churchill last week in .58?

Third off a layoff

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by clydewine

Third off a layoff

Likewise with CQ

[estreetposse]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

How about this guy, genius? Was he the best 3 year old?

http://www.secretariat.com/past_performance.htm

1) What did I do or say to you?

2) I don't see the comparison between "Blocky's"(I know u luv'em) last race and SS last...
Sec was 5-6 lengths back while SS no further than 3 off the entire
race and should have pulled it out if he truly is the best in this crop, IMO.


And to the Jersey Folk:

I was roomates at school with a bunch of guys from NJ, I know it's not that bad, but it was the
nicest thing to say that was in my head at the time, I apologize to the rest of the Jersey folk.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by estreetposse

1) What did I do or say to you?

2) I don't see the comparison between "Blocky's"(I know u luv'em) last race and SS last...
Sec was 5-6 lengths back while SS no further than 3 off the entire
race and should have pulled it out if he truly is the best in this crop, IMO.


And to the Jersey Folk:

I was roomates at school with a bunch of guys from NJ, I know it's not that bad, but it was the
nicest thing to say that was in my head at the time, I apologize to the rest of the Jersey folk.

Nothing... it just irks me that you can hold it against a horse like Street Sense for losing a race. Just an awfully bold comment for you to make, that's all. LOL on the 'Blocky' reference.

[estreetposse]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Nothing... it just irks me that you can hold it against a horse like Street Sense for losing a race. Just an awfully bold comment for you to make, that's all. LOL on the 'Blocky' reference.

Alright, I understand, but can someone explain why he lost the race and then tell me why it seems I can't try to beat him in the derby? Like I've said 2 or 3x before, I just don't like him on top but will probably use him underneath.
I'll check back manana to see who else wants a whack at me, Good Night.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by estreetposse

Alright, I understand, but can someone explain why he lost the race and then tell me why it seems I can't try to beat him in the derby? Like I've said 2 or 3x before, I just don't like him on top but will probably use him underneath.
I'll check back manana to see who else wants a whack at me, Good Night.

Nothing wrong with trying to beat him... if anything, I'd try to beat him by the fact that he's only had two starts as a 3 year old. But just out of curiosity... IF he had won by a neck in the Blue Grass, would you still be trying to beat him?

[whodey17]

Not sure how anyone can say SS was outrun in the Bluegrass. SS was on his left lead drifted in behind Great Hunter, then got on his right lead, then Teuf came out and SS switched back to his left lead and lugged in, it wasnt until the finish line when SS switched back to his right lead. After all of this, he loses by a nose to a horse who loves Polytrack.

For me the knock on SS is his tendecy not to switch leads. He had a hard time getting to the correct lead in the Bluegrass and in the BC Juve he ran almost the entire stretch on his left lead.

[The Bid]

How many times has SS been off the board

[whodey17]

Originally Posted by The Bid

How many times has SS been off the board

I am sure you know this but....7-3-2-2. So he has never ran off the board.

[Scurlogue Champ]

I think it depends on your definition of "outrun."

In my opinion he was outran because he didn't win.

He had every shot and didn't get there.

If he would have won, he wouldn't have been outran. He would have outran everyone else.

If the margin is what you are suggesting, then that is a valid point. But that race goes down in history as Dominican's. Street Sense's stallion advertisement isn't going to say Bluegrass Stakes (GR. 1) didn't get outran

it will say Bluegrass Stakes (GR. 1) 2nd

[The Bid]

Thats what I figured Whodey, 7 starts and never off the board. He hangs on the wrong lead and hes still getting it done. Better hope he doesnt switch over this Saturday if you are throwing him off the ticket

[whodey17]

Well then Circular Quay got outrun in the Risen Star, BC Juve and the Breeders Cup Futurity.

I wouldnt say that Quay got outran in the Risen Star because a horse fell in front of him. And I wouldnt say that SS got outran in the Bluegrass because of the lugging, not switching leads and Teuf coming out on three horses.

SS and Quay are hard to seperate. They both will be far back and both will have to find their way through traffic. Both horses like Churchill. SS - 2-1-1-0 and Quay 3-2-1-0. Quay is coming off of his best beyer and SS is coming off a beyer of 93 (which he has digressed in his last two starts from his 108 in the BC Juve 108-102-93.

For me the difference in the two is that Carl has had a plan for SS since the BC Juve and the planned has worked to perfection. Quay had his plan altered and that isnt a good sign for me. But if you like one, you almost have to like the other.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by whodey17

Well then Circular Quay got outrun in the Risen Star, BC Juve and the Breeders Cup Futurity.

I wouldnt say that Quay got outran in the Risen Star because a horse fell in front of him. And I wouldnt say that SS got outran in the Bluegrass because of the lugging, not switching leads and Teuf coming out on three horses.

SS and Quay are hard to seperate. They both will be far back and both will have to find their way through traffic. Both horses like Churchill. SS - 2-1-1-0 and Quay 3-2-1-0. Quay is coming off of his best beyer and SS is coming off a beyer of 93 (which he has digressed in his last two starts from his 108 in the BC Juve 108-102-93.

For me the difference in the two is that Carl has had a plan for SS since the BC Juve and the planned has worked to perfection. Quay had his plan altered and that isnt a good sign for me. But if you like one, you almost have to like the other.

Quay sure did get outran....badly in the BCJ, the race at Keeneland, and the Risen Star. I don't think SS will be very far back this time around. Just a feeling though.

I'm gonna go back and watch the replay of the Bluegrass and look at what difficulties SS had.

I'll be back on in a minute.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Street Sense ran as hard as he could in that race in my opinion and was outfinished by a runner that had to change course as well to get around him and get running room.

He did get hampered a bit in the stretch but he had let down a couple of times and didn't go past them and was caught.

Does no one else think Dominican had to alter course as well while giving Street Sense a head start and still caught him?

Because that is what I saw. I am thinking that everyone wants to throw this race out due to pace, etc... because Street Sense didn't show dominance over this field. If he didn't win by a pole, then there obviously has to be some other outside factor that didn't let him do his thing. Since I think AGS is a dog, I wasn't impressed with the Tampa Bay effort as well. He has ran two races this year and hasn't yet shown that he stands out in my opinion. I think that the probable derby favorite needs to show this progression into a dominant animal before the race. Without his BC win at Churchill last year, he would be another Zanjero.

I suppose that I am gambling against him repeating what I consider to be a "freak" effort. Without that effort, he hasn't shown me that he is any better than the rest.

[whodey17]

Dominican had to alter course, but SS problems was 4 fold....

1) Lugged in at the top of the stretch
2) Didnt switch to his right lead
3) Teuf came out
4) Once SS switched to his right lead, he switched back to his left after Teuf came out.

In addition, they raced over Poly which is a surface that Dominican loves and SS doesnt really care for.

[Scurlogue Champ]

I added to my last post with an edit...

sorry

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by whodey17

Dominican had to alter course, but SS problems was 4 fold....

1) Lugged in at the top of the stretch
2) Didnt switch to his right lead
3) Teuf came out
4) Once SS switched to his right lead, he switched back to his left after Teuf came out.

In addition, they raced over Poly which is a surface that Dominican loves and SS doesnt really care for.

Agreed on all points except I think the source of three of those problems can be blamed on the horse.

1) his fault
2) his fault
3) not his fault
4) ehhh...push

The champion or best horse in the race should get clear and mow them down. Maybe it was jockey error and Borel should have swung him wide where he could let down and get in full cry. I don't know. I'm not backing him though.

I see all your points and I am making concessions for my choice as well. I don't wish SS or Nafzger any ill-will and would be thrilled for them to win. Just don't like what I see.

[whodey17]

Originally Posted by moodwalker

Agreed on all points except I think the source of three of those problems can be blamed on the horse.

1) his fault
2) his fault
3) not his fault
4) ehhh...push

The champion or best horse in the race should get clear and mow them down. Maybe it was jockey error and Borel should have swung him wide where he could let down and get in full cry. I don't know. I'm not backing him though.

I see all your points and I am making concessions for my choice as well. I don't wish SS or Nafzger any ill-will and would be thrilled for them to win. Just don't like what I see.

I agree with you 100% that the horse doesnt switch leads and causes some of his own problems. This is my only knock on the horse. I like both SS and Quay. However, I am structuring my ticket around Quay in 2nd and 3rd.