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#61
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Nothing against Cigar, who was a true champion and brought his A game every time, but the group you offer would blow his doors off. You didn't even include those such as Tiznow, Skip Away, Awesome Again... Quote:
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please use generalizations and non-truths when arguing your side, thank you |
#62
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![]() Where Cigar gains stature is in the fact that he brought it time after time. He traveled. He carried some weight. He was ultra-consistent and if u are to ask me would I take him over some of the other horses I mentioned, I would based on those factors alone. I'd rather have a horse that will give me a 115 race every time over one that is just as capable of giving me a 125 as he is a 105. So for an extended period of sustained top level racing, Cigar moves way up the list. But if u are to take all of the horses and take their best two or three races and say which horses had the most ability, Cigar is much further down the list than his list of accomplishments would suggest.
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The real horses of the year (1986-2020) Manila, Java Gold, Alysheba, Sunday Silence, Go for Wand, In Excess, Paseana, Kotashaan, Holy Bull, Cigar, Alphabet Soup, Formal Gold, Skip Away, Artax, Tiznow, Point Given, Azeri, Candy Ride, Smarty Jones, Ghostzapper, Invasor, Curlin, Zenyatta, Zenyatta, Goldikova, Havre de Grace, Wise Dan, Wise Dan, California Chrome, American Pharoah, Arrogate, Gun Runner, Accelerate, Maximum Security, Gamine |
#63
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Invasor will mow all of them down. |
#64
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#65
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Don't forget... Afleet Alex was mentioned... |
#66
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I always get excited when horse racing has a David Beckham celebrity (Cigar, Funny Cide, Smarty Jones) to fill some seats and pique interest, even if those seats are filled with butts that wouldn't recognize a filly from a colt, and won't be there mid-winter at Aqueduct. You have to start somewhere when making new fans. But when the sport gets one of those PR gifts (Street Sense, Borel, and Nafzger could have been a great one, spanning a years time!), horse racing pretty much ignores everyone not already within the loop.
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"Have the clean racing people run any ads explaining that giving a horse a Starbucks and a chocolate poppyseed muffin for breakfast would likely result in a ten year suspension for the trainer?" - Dr. Andrew Roberts |
#67
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#68
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#69
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OH DON'T MAKE ME BEYOTCH SLAP YOU. DON'T YOU DISS ON MY GIRL WINNING COLORS. ![]()
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"Until one has loved an animal, part of their soul remains unawaken. ![]() |
#70
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correct, dissing would be the fact she's lucky Risen Star got a bad ride...lol When both as a broodmare had a top earner around 500k and nothing else isn't dissing. Her top earner did have a decent earner in Japan sired by Sunday Silence.
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I'm like evil, I get under your skin Just like a bomb that's ready to blow 'Cause I'm illegal, I got everything That all you women might need to know |
#71
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#72
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![]() risen star, now that was an underated horse...........if he didnt get a hack job for a ride in the derby he would have won that race.
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#73
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![]() I think Rags to Riches grueling summer of races is bringing all kinds of new fans to the sport. I can't even remember what she looks like!! (this is in relation to the post that said Cigar brought many new fans to the sport!)
On the topic of Cigar, I think he is better than he is being given credit for than most on this thread. I think KG lists way too many on his list. To me the best thing a horse can do is race a lot and win a lot. Cigar did that and most others listed don't. To me that is like saying Kevin Kouzmanoff is the best player in major league baseball, because the first pitch he saw as a big leaguer last year he hit a grand slam home run. And that just isn't true stating he is the best. But how many hall of famers hit the first pitch they saw for a grand slam?? Just because Ghostzapper could roll out 120 plus Beyers at will does not make him better than Cigar in my opinion. Just faster. HE had more grade 1 wins than Ghostzapper had starts. Going back 30 years picking up Affirmed and Bid and others...no way is he the best. But 25 years there are not too many better in my opinion. Some of the late 80s ones like Alysheba, and EG..SS perhaps, but I'm not too sure. Easy Goer and Sunday Silence did nothing as older horses.
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The Main Course...the chosen or frozen entree?! |
#74
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![]() the only way Discreet Cat or Smarty Jones would beat Cigar in a 1 1/4m race is if Discreet Cat ran the first 5 furlongs and Smarty Jones ran the last 5 furlongs
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#75
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![]() I'm too new to know for sure. But I'm wondering if I'll ever see one better than Ghostzapper.
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Facebook- Peter May Jr. Twitter- @pmayjr You wouldn't be ballin' if your name was Spauldin' If y'all fresh to death, then I'm deceased... |
#76
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Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new at all. Abraham Lincoln |
#77
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hey dude, how come i cant see your avatar? |
#78
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![]() I think Smarty was a better horse than Cigar.
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#79
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![]() as much as i like smarty - maybe at 7f or a mile... but cigar had that burst of speed at the 3/8 pole that just inhaled the field when he went 9-10f.
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#80
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The real horses of the year (1986-2020) Manila, Java Gold, Alysheba, Sunday Silence, Go for Wand, In Excess, Paseana, Kotashaan, Holy Bull, Cigar, Alphabet Soup, Formal Gold, Skip Away, Artax, Tiznow, Point Given, Azeri, Candy Ride, Smarty Jones, Ghostzapper, Invasor, Curlin, Zenyatta, Zenyatta, Goldikova, Havre de Grace, Wise Dan, Wise Dan, California Chrome, American Pharoah, Arrogate, Gun Runner, Accelerate, Maximum Security, Gamine |