Bailey vs. Azeri

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Ok I give up

Lakeway and Sardula should be in the HALL of FAME!!!

We are all just witnesses to the greatness of these 2 fillies.

akinemod should be in too.


Go for Wand just rolled over in her grave......

You are a quitter....

You should have mocked the supposed greatness that was Phone Chatter.....

You'd have really had some fun at that point.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Ok I give up

Lakeway and Sardula should be in the HALL of FAME!!!

We are all just witnesses to the greatness of these 2 fillies.

akinemod should be in too.


Go for Wand just rolled over in her grave......

Are facts always so inconvenient for you?

The funny thing is, I loved all those fillies I named in this thread, especially go for wand. There is just no way on earth she would have beaten a healthy lakeway by much, if at all. They were both on the same level in my opinion.

I think you are just biased against California horses and probably aren't as familiar with Lakeway's 3yo races as you are with her 4yo races, when she was no longer the same filly.

Sardula died while a three year old, so who knows what would have happened with her.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

I think she ran third, and I don't recall exactly by how much she lost, but wasn't it by around 5?

Not even close.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Not even close.

i stand corrected then. how much was the margin of defeat?

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Which is why I said I leaned towards what you were arguing. My point was in that year that Pgardn had such a hard time watching her, it was a pretty productive year.

That is because she was nothing compared to what she was.
Not the same horse. Not even close. I really wonder if she even
wanted to run.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

how much was the margin of defeat?

3 lengths

The time was 1/5th of a second slower than Brocco's 5 length win over Blummin Affair and Tabasco Cat. Dehere was also in that race - and well beaten.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Are facts always so inconvenient for you?

The funny thing is, I loved all those fillies I named in this thread, especially go for wand. There is just no way on earth she would have beaten a healthy lakeway by much, if at all. They were both on the same level in my opinion.

I think you are just biased against California horses and probably aren't as familiar with Lakeway's 3yo races as you are with her 4yo races, when she was no longer the same filly.

Sardula died while a three year old, so who knows what would have happened with her.

I am not biased against any horses but I happen to think that Lakeway was not an alltime great which you contend. I remember seeing her train the week before the Alabama and was not impressed. I also was not that high on HP who was clearly better that day. I also recall that the the KY oaks that year fell apart with the exception of the top 2.

That you say she was not the same filly at 4 does not excuse the fact she wasn't. It is all part of the horses overall record which is taken into consideration.

She really did not accomplish that much in an era where horses did a lot more than they do now. Sardula was a nice filly who died. That is too bad but she was as likely to be exposed at 4 as she was to become some great champion.

Which is what the horses I named were. They not only took it to the track almost everytime out, they did it over multiple seasons, at many tracks, sometimes against males, and often carrying weight. To say that Lakeway or Sardula is in the same league as Go For Wand or Bayakoa is like saying Don Mattingly is as good as Lou Gehrig. To say that they were close is laughable.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

That is because she was nothing compared to what she was.
Not the same horse. Not even close. I really wonder if she even
wanted to run.

Her sheet numbers were better the year she was supposedly so down.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

No need to tarnish Don Mattingly's great name. First Tommy lasorda, now Mattingly. You're killing me Chuck.

The great (for 6 seasons and not so great for 6) Don Mattingly. Donny Baseball. The Lakeway of the Big Leagues

[Cannon Shell]

Lyman Bostock, the Sardula of MLB

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I agree with Cannon totally that too many people judge horses based on what they could have accomplished and not what they did accomplish.

I've seen enough raw talent from Magnificence to suggest that she can be easily better than any filly or mare who's raced this decade....

However, she must do like a Discreet Cat or Ghostzapper, and go out and really prove the greatness that jumps off the tape at you in her inital wins.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Her sheet numbers were better the year she was supposedly so down.

Someone soiled the sheets.
And dirty sheets are made by runnng against 30K claimers as you stated.
I just watchem run.
So do you guys.

I also think Dan Marino is the best QB I have ever seen.
So maybe my eyes are just bad.

Mineshaft's style was impeccable by my eye also.
But of course he never ran against anything (according to many).

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I obviously don't hold the fact that Azeri wasn't beating tough fields against her - I just don't think she was on the same level as the other superstars from a decade and two prior.

She was very good and very consistant - and didn't run for hop trainers - but being the best filly or mare of this decade is a lot like being the prettiest girl at the fat camp.

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I just went back and watched Magnificience's first 2. God, I hope she comes back.

She's trained by Heady Lamarr.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

What about this one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBdRyCEcnlo

1:45 4/5th is an insane time. Go for wand was awesome!

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

1:45 4/5th is an insane time. Go for wand was awesome!

2/5's off of Secretariat's track record. And this came after a Saratoga meet where she won the Test in 1:21 and came back nine days later to win the Alabama in 2:00 4/5.

[Indian Charlie]

lakeway went 145.4 going 9f both earlier in her 3yo season and on a track that was a 2 turn 9f race.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

lakeway went 145.4 going 9f both earlier in her 3yo season and on a track that was a 2 turn 9f race.

She went 1:46 4/5 in the Hollywood Oaks. She went 1:46 2/5 in the Mother Goose. That Hollywood race was brilliant.

[justindew]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Bailey tried to win the race, period. He knew he had one chance to win and that was to wire them. If anyone is at fault it would be Pat Day who pressed the pace even though it obviously was fast. What was Bailey supposed to do? Shout over to Day, "Hey Pat I'm gonna slow it down a little. Please dont pass me."? Watch the race and tell me where the opportunity was for him to back the pace up?

And Justin you must not be too old because Azeri, while a good horse, was not in the same class as many of the good filliy and mares of the 80's like Lady's Secret, Winning Colors, Personal Ensign, Go for Wand, Bayakoa.....

I'm 31, for the record. I never saw any of the above in person. Nor was I a fan of the sport then.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

She went 1:46 4/5 in the Hollywood Oaks. She went 1:46 2/5 in the Mother Goose. That Hollywood race was brilliant.

oops! thanks for the correction. are you sure it was only 46.4 for the oaks though?

and yeah, her hollywood oaks win was electrifying.